Yeah, you anti-genocidal fucks.
How dare you support not killing people en masse? Monsters
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damn i look good
Sure do king…I’ll leave your bathroom now.
oh you’re leaving, then I’m leaving the bathroom closet as well
I guess I’ll leave the bathroom vent then
Don’t mind me, I’ll stay a little longer
Oh well, guess this orgy turned into a more intimate affair. Want me to change the music from Bloodhound Gang to Sade? 🤷
Even completely ignoring all the history of the region and how the current State of Israel came to be and only focusing on the present in a vacuum, there is still is a glaring contradiction that I have never heard any sort of coherent answer from people who support Israel’s actions: If you truly believe that simply having a negative opinion of Israel’s actions against Palestinians is antisemitic (or simply being a Palestinian that’s still alive is antisemitic according to too many people), then surely it also holds that both Israel’s outright killing of Palestinians and their ongoing apartheid policies preventing Palestinians from existing in the same areas as Israelis is anti-Arab right? Is being anti-Arabic somehow preferable to being antisemitic? Are Arabs not human beings and do they not deserve the same rights and protection as Jews or literally any other human? What makes it okay for Israel to be anti-Arab then?
One of the half baked arguments I have heard is that Israel is “justified” in being anti-Arabic because “it’s in self defense against Palestinians that want to kill them,” but if you make that assertion, then what makes the other side different? Israel is certainly not just attacking the Hamas and there have been more Palestinian civilian victims than Israeli civilian victims so wouldn’t you saying that also automatically imply the inverse and equally justify the Hamas’ actions against Israel? You can’t attack someone while claiming self defense and then cry foul when they defend themselves against you.
Israel is committing a genocide. - At best, one would have to concede they’re killing thousands of children to get at a handful of Hamas members. If you call it antisemitic to point that out, you’re saying genocidal kid-killing is inherent to Israelis - which is about as antisemitic as it gets, and a damn good justification for wiping Israel off the map. It’s a moronic,monstrous line to push.
(Not disagreeing, but offering a bit more insight)
To be fair, what the IDF is doing is hard. Fighting irregular forces in dense urban environments is hard, especially with their opponents having hundreds of underground bunkers and using civilian shields. Even if they were operating under best practice, there would be a lot of civilian casualties.
However, they aren’t operating under best practices. I don’t know how the average IDF soldier feels, but the top brass at best doesn’t give a shit if they kill a hundred palestinian civilians per one Hamas member; At worst, they see this conflict as an excuse to actively target them.
Between the genocidal rhetoric of Israeli leadership, the fact that Israel propped up Hamas over the PLO, and the fact that the casualty stats are squarely in line with the broader civilian population, what makes you think any attempt is being made to avoid civilian casualties?
Hamas and combatatant-aged men aren’t over-represented in the casualty stats - this is just an indiscriminate genocide they’ve been clearly signalling they intend to commit.
what makes you think any attempt is being made to avoid civilian casualties?
they aren’t operating under best practices.
I don’t
ya, but Israeli are white, those other sub humans are brown you fool./s
You jest, but Israel also has a long history of discrimination against non-Ashkenazi Jewish people.
jest? about the people forcefully sterilized Ethiopian Jews that moved to Israel?
It’s white-dominated settler-colonial ethnostates all the way down!
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You seem to misunderstand the Israeli occupation of Palestine. The West Bank is very much governed by the IDF and they treat Jews differently than non Jews. The IDF can legally detain Palestinians for up to 6 months without charges while being required to defend settlers who attack and harass Palestinians. They undermine the Palestinian Authority and override their supposed authority all the time. Gaza is more of an open air prison as people can’t leave. The reason Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza is because they did in the past and it was uneconomical.
There are a ton of people who basically paint all pro Palestinian groups and protests as antisemitic, from the ADL to Israeli lobbyists. These people are totally unreasonable and have a large amount of influence. “Opposing Israel’s actions = anti-Zionism = antisemitism,” isn’t the fringe narrative it should be. At the same time, there are braindead so called, “leftists,” who can’t comprehend that both Netanyahu’s government and Hamas are genocidal theocratic fascists. They’re also frustrating as fuck and cannot be tolerated. Far too many have lost their minds and morals over this conflict.
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The checkpoints and control of roads in the West Bank prevent Palestinians from moving freely. The PLO “controls,” The West Bank, but when an occupying nation controls many of the roads, preventing usage of certain roads by the citizens of your territory and only letting their own citizens travel on them, how can they be considered independent? They lack basic sovereignty, with their citizens not being able to move within their own country due to an occupying force. You claim there is no authority to undermine, but even if correct, the reason for a lack of authority is squarely on Israel.
The idea that Palestine’s population has grown for the entire conflict falls apart when you look at the late 1940s, where over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were expelled from their homes by Zionist militias. It was almost half of the Arab population. In just a few years, zealous Zionists used violence to flip the demographics of the region to favor Jews over non Jews. This wasn’t genocide, but was undeniably ethnic cleansing. It’s an important piece of context that Israeli fascists have tried to keep out of the conversation, focusing on population trends after their ethnic cleansing and assuming people won’t investigate.
I might describe Isreal’s practical intentions as genocidal because that’s the only way their strategy can make Israeli citizens safe like they claim to be working towards. Bombing Gaza does not make Israel safer unless they decimate the population enough to exert authoritarian control over the survivors. If they wanted Palestinians to live alongside Israel peacefully, they would ensure that there is a strong Palestinian state with little motivation to invade. If they got rid of settlements in the West Bank, funded a Palestinians state and reinvigorated their economy, and mutually agreed to harshly police hate crimes in both states, then they could coexist. The only ways to defeat Hamas in Gaza through force would be occupation of Gaza, or the expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza.
The reason they don’t go all out on purging Gaza probably has to do with Arabs outside Palestine who might attack if it happens too quickly. Israel has nukes, but they still want to avoid all out war. The long term goal of this subset of Zionists, genocidal Zionists, is to take over all of Palestine eventually, something that would likely be genocidal. Some Zionists want two states, but the Zionists in charge want a single Jewish theocracy.
I want peace and safety for Jewish people and Palestinians, something that will not happen without a true two state solution, or a single secular state. The long term plan of the state of Israel is ethnic cleansing at best, and genocide at worst.
The situation with Egypt requires contextual knowledge of their history with the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas is a breakaway from the MB, and still ally with them. Egypt’s more secular military overthrew the Muslim Brotherhood’s democratic government, and the current government doesn’t want them to rise again. Letting in Palestinians would let in Hamas members, who might create problems for the government. It’s not the peacefulness of Palestinians, but the politics of Egypt that prevent them from accepting refugees. If Hamas was exactly the same but would oppose MB forces in Egypt, Egypt would probably let in some refugees. However, it’s hard for a nation with Egypt’s problems, to deal with so many refugees by themselves anyways. Israel, the ones creating refugees out of Palestinians, can’t expect their neighbors to happily foot the bill of caring for people who’s property they stole and destroyed.
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If Germany was land locked inside France though to be fair right?
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considering that the IDF guards even the strip connecting Gaza to Egypt, yes Israel is basically land locking Gaza
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IDF ships shoot anything that strays too far from the coast, and the guards don’t have to be in the cells to have people imprisoned
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I see they have that little Egypt strip there … I do take your point and it’s a good one but I still struggle with the Germany france comparison. Maybe like luxembourg and Germany or France… or Avignon with the double pope – How about that?
Or the Basques would be good if they ever had their own real country
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Circlejerk rather than shitpost.
True facts.
The hubris and the gall of those crazy leftists, they don’t want dead babies what monsters!
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We can condemn Hamas and Israel in the same breath. We don’t have to support Israel as the agency to “remove” Hamas.
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You are incredibly hostile towards people who have no part in this tragedy. You are also creating a strawman of Crazy pro-hamas lunatics, most people critical of Israel are also anti Hamas and we agree that they are terrorists. Anger is acceptable in this situation but you are directing it at what is at best a vocal minority or at worst you creating a strawman to deflect attention from Israels wrong doings.
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Oh sure one sec…let’s see…bomb a refugee camp, a hospital, and ambulances and kill kids and others who did nothing or…take a surgical attack on the people who attacked you? Tough decisions…hmmm…going to go with attack the actual people who attacked you.
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Just FYI you sound like an asshat with your hot takes, based on bias and ignorance.
I am saying that it’s ok for Israel to go after the people who attacked them, it’s not ok to blow up children and innocents.
I’ll condemn Hamas, but you’re fucking nuts if you want anyone with a soul to support sending the marines
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Oh what’s that random internet commentator? You can’t instantly solve all conflict in 800 characters? FIRE UP THE HELLFIRES MAMA’S EATIN’ TONIGHT!
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nah, I would go more along the lines of abolish the apartheid system in Israel, stop specifically targeting civilians, stop committing pogroms in the west bank, and stop supporting Hamas because you don’t want the PA to be able to actually argue for a two-state solution, etc…
the list is long, and surprisingly most of these options don’t involve attacking Gaza in some form of retribution, nor do they involve the ethnic cleansing/genocide (and yes, what Israel is doing is a genocide by the UN definition we came up with based on the Turkish genocide of Armenians)
edit: where exactly does this bullshit of “Palestinians rejected every attempt at a two-state solution” bullshit come from? the only “two state solutions” they rejected were the soviet style client state proposals Israel came up with, the whole reason the PA exists instead of the PLO is that Palestinians were ratifying the Oslo Agreements, until Israel decided it wanted to keep occupying the west bank because it’s clearly rightfully won land, leading to an expansion of illegal settlements, and anti-Palestinian violence and racism.
Wow that other guy was so awful. Sorry you had to read that.
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I’m struggling to find anything that would lead to a down vote here.
Whether or not you believe Israel even has a right to exist aside, any reasonable actor would obviously want what you’ve outlined above…
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A hard look, you say?
I still hate you striker, but based meme.
“I used the chad meme so I’m correct”
I look fantastic, at peace with myself, and pacifist, as I work for a world without conflict.
To the leftist who is stunned by this message:
Think of Jordan Peterson. There was a time where he was riled up against “ideologies who would kill people in the name of a higher good.” And he named examples, Stalin and Mao most prominently. For all the abstract criticisms of ideologies, he rarely distances himself from Fascism, named Hitler only very occasionally as an example.
Now he is forethinker for the Republican Fascist party which is now normalizing the exact dehumanizing language that the Nazis used to prepared and justify their concentration camps.
Antifascists caught his thought patterns early on and warned of him using fascist arguments much more sensitive than most people, the missing distancing from Hitler along his other prominent examples being one of them.
Now, dear leftists, the mirror of this arguments wants to ask you if you are really only motivated by reducing human suffering and wanting peace. And if so, you cannot ignore the role of Hamas in this longtime ongoing conflict nor in this war. If you skip that, if that’s not in your mirror, it’s big time necessary to go outside your bubble. Because then chances are you are a puppet playing the propaganda trumpet for the Hamas, or otherwise playing in their hands.
Tedious as it may be, missing distance to a terrorist group like that in a conflict like that is a big red flag.
And just as a tedious albeit necessary disclaimer, I believe Netanyahu and quite a bunch of other Israeli actors belong in a courtroom and then in jail for their atrocities, and certainly not in power.
And if so, you cannot ignore the role of Hamas in this longtime ongoing conflict nor in this war.
Israel created Hamas, because they wanted to destabilize the PLO and Fatah. They continue to recruit more people for Hamas by killing fathers, wives, and children indiscriminately. Israel’s only path forward is genocide–either literal, or through the absolute destruction of Palestinian identity–much like we did in the US to the Native Americans.
That is at best a totally skewed version. Yea we know Netanyahu for a few years let the Hamas grow, and we have records of him with vaguely the reasoning you have there.
But to make Israel entirely responsible for the existence for the Hamas, and for what the Hamas does and wants, demands a world view of an all powerful Jewish government that plans and executes for immense time frames that span generations. Don’t we have that thought pattern in widely spread antisemitic conspiracy theories?
But to make Israel entirely responsible for the existence for the Hamas
Well, they largely are though, because they created the conditions that allows Hamas to flourish. Israel is the country that has been waging war against the Palestinians. Israel has continually fought against making real progress on a two-state solution, and Israel is the one using it’s army to let Israeli colonizers take over more and more Palestinian land in the West Bank. Israel is thr country that is illegally occupying the West Bank. Israel is an apartheid country.
Hardliners–like Netanyahu–oppose any peace process with the Palestinians, and oppose allowing them to have the land back that is rightfully and legally theirs. Hardline Israelis are every bit as deranged as evangelical Christians, and for largely the same reasons.
This isn’t about anti-semitism, unless you want to insist that Israel is a Jewish ethno-state, and that any opposition to Israeli policy, politics, and military action is actually antisemitism.
Your comment reads like you’re addressing mostly the history since 2005 or so. I definitely see that Israel after the 2nd intifada has had a very different strategy than before, including these things that you outline.
Just don’t ignore that there was a history before. There was an offer for a 2-state solution on the table where the world agreed it won’t get any better. Arafat just walked away and started the 2nd intifada instead. Hamas is still much older than that. Irans support of the Hamas is newer, though.
It’s so lame to blame it all on Israel. My take on this still is that for the security of Israel, it doesn’t matter much what Israel does. Their tries for peace negotiations were largely ignored, and their hard crackdowns do shit for their security. The signal to deescalate the conflict must come from Iran, which will impact how Hamas and Hisbollah work.
Arafat did not just “start[…] the 2nd intifada instead”. Israel wasn’t really negotiating in good faith, and was=–at that time–actively undermining the PLO and Fatah. There was a lot of shit that led up to the 2nd Intifada, and putting the blame on Palestinians, when Israel shoulders a lot of blame due to the actions of their hardliners, is simply historical revisionism. The very fact that Israel continued restricting movements of Palestinians, and weren’t–and aren’t–willing to dismantle settlements in the occupied West Bank are some of the direct causes. You’ve also got the provocation of PM Sharon (of Likud, the same party as Netanyahu) showing up to temple mount with an armed contingent that directly kicks off the Infitada.
Lmao. It’s beyond pathetic how hard people try to paint literally anything as antisemitic at they can shut down dissent. Do you actually think anyone takes this kind of comment seriously? It’s such a ridiculous stretch.
Not to mention that to set it up in the first place, you had to lie and downplay Netanyahu’s involvement with Hamas as if it doesn’t matter. Lies on top of lies. You must think the rest of us are so fucking stupid.
Every sane person just reading the news of what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank can make their own conclusions. If you really value human life no matter the religion, ethnicity or skin colour you can see a clear pattern.
Really? What we have in the news these days is published by the conflict parties, independent verification is almost never possible.
I don’t need the exact numbers to know how bad the situation is. I have a couple of questions for you:
- Do you agree that the civilian casualties on the Palestinian side far exceed those on the Israeli part?
- Do you agree that a large chunk of the population in Gaza is displaced and currently living in makeshift tents?
- Do you agree that there is an ongoing humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza?
- Do you agree that there is increased violence and imposed restrictions in the West bank by the IDF, and that far right settlers are persecuting Palestinians and killing them.
- Weren’t there members of the Israeli parliament calling for nuking Gaza, to do the same in the West Bank, etc?
- What about illegal settlements, land grab, numerous human rights violations, etc.
I also want Hamas gone, but don’t think this is the way.
Yes, there is all that. As I said, I think Netanyahu and his bunch belong in jail, not in power.
But even if this guy is out of the way, here’s a few more questions to consider:
- Do you agree that after Oct 7th, Israels strategy of building a wall and an “iron dome” must be considered totally failed?
- Do you agree that the Hamas can not be talked with?
- Do you agree that in addition to the Hamas, Israel is surrounded by militant groups that want to erase the state from the map?
- Do you agree that in the past no palestinean negotiator honestly considered a 2-state-solution?
What are, positively speaking, Israels options? What should a moderate follower of Netanyahu do to achieve some sort of piece? I’m lost here. Do you have any ideas other than saying “not this way”?
By being involved in a constructive dialogue, ready to make concessions, outlining a plan to withdraw some Israeli settlements in the West bank, giving more autonomy to Palestine, active persecution of settlers, who are violently attacking Palestinians in the West bank. No double standards in their treatment. In exchange for peaceful disarmament of Palestinians and power transition to PA, but also disarmament of settlers. Removal of some of the checkpoints, outlining a plan of removal of more checkpoints if certain criteria are met. Reconstruction of Gaza.
And tell me how restricting water and food in Gaza helps IDF, I can to certain point understand the fuel ban and to a lesser extent the electricity ban, but food and water are essential for every human being and limiting them is a human rights violation.
Unfortunately at this point there is a lot of bad blood on both sides and this is definitely not a good start.
