Turbo Tax is the reason why the government doesn’t just give you a number to pay. The process could be easy, but the giant corporation Intuit and their political lobbying is why it sucks.
TurboTax plus Republicans wanting to make paying taxes as difficult as possible so people will vote to cut taxes
Which is not a solution because just because while you pay less taxes you still have to go through the process
The IRS is actually going test pilot such a program in a few states in the near future.
Which is why they keep wanting to defund the IRS (example):
- It allows the wealthy to cheat on their taxes with less concerns of getting audited or if they do get audited, they can outspend the auditors.
- It would have de-funded this measure the IRS is getting ready to test which would allow Americans to figure out and pay their taxes without feeling compelled to go through middle men like Intuit and TurboTax.
Edit: More direct example of point 2
After President Joe Biden’s December 2021 Executive Order instructed Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen to consider “expanded electronic filing options,” Yellen testified before the Senate Finance Committee that building a free direct filing service is “definitely a priority.” The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 allotted $15 million for the IRS to explore the creation of a free federal tax filing service.
In May, the IRS released a report announcing plans to launch the pilot program for the 2024 tax filing season and indicating that most U.S. taxpayers are interested in filing their taxes directly to the IRS for free.
But in June, Republicans on the House Appropriations Committee proposed a budget rider that would bar the IRS from using federal government funds to create a government-run tax preparation software, unless approved by the House and Senate’s appropriations committees.
If I was a billionaire, it sure is more affordable to spend 30 million on lobbying than paying 50 million on taxes.
The IRS is actually testing a new system where they just tell you how much you owe/get, and that’s it unless there’s unreported income and such that needs to be corrected.
Link? I will instantly use it. Mostly to stick it to Intuit.
Turbotax has entered the chat. Turbotax has DMed your senator a couple hundred thousand to make sure you will never be able to use this
I’m not going to lie; there is a threshold where just being a complete tribal savage is easier than dealing with the beauracacy. If it becomes too time consuming, expensive, and stressful to do taxes, I will squat in the soon-to-be ruins of business real estate and hunt the local pigeon and duck populations to survive.
They decide who is in the pilot at this point, not us.
That hurts, hope it comes to the public.
It will. Takes time to test and roll things out
You are severely underestimating the tax prep lobbyists. The IRS has been trying to do this for decades.
I’m aware of this. This is the first time I’m aware they managed to get a pilot system and I think that shows great promise. Also, people are noticing more and more, and pushing back.
Yes, but previously all the big player opted into a middle ground goverment sanctioned “free file” system that made filing taxes free for most Americans from these companies.
Thr big players have recently opted out, so the IRS is now actually running the pilot this year.
If you don’t qualify for the pilot, you can also find out what other tax filing companies do not lobby to keep taxes hard to figure out and file.
So you mainly want to avoid Intuit owned companies and H&R Block. They alone spent millions per year to lobby against easy and free filing for taxpayers.
Then there’s the ACTR (American Coalition Of Taxpayer Rights) who spend $100s of thousands a year lobbying for the same (and are made up by 14 members:
https://www.americancoalitionfortaxpayerrights.org/about/
Intuit
H&R Block
Tax Act
OnLine Taxes
Wolters Kluwer
Tax Hawk
Liberty Tax
Drake Software
Jackson Hewitt
also the following financial institutions:
Netspend
Republic Bank
TPG Santa Barbara
pathward
Edit: Started a post in /c/asklemmy to find out alternatives. Tax Act was my go-to company, but they’ve joined the ACTR at some point, so they’re a no-go.
https://lemmy.world/post/8447282
Edit 2: Checking out some older reddit threads on the subject, FreeTaxUSA may be the best option so far. FreeTaxUSA are owned by Tax Hawk which is a member of the ACTR, however of all the ones i’ve checked so far, they are the cheapest (free Federal and $15 state), and at least they’re not one of the top lobbying companies like Intuit(Turbo Tax/Credit Karma tax services), H&R Block, or Jackson Hewitt.
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Or not. Just cut out the middle man.
Things you need to know first
Why that isn’t the default to begin with is anyone’s guess
I mean it’s not really. Lobbying. Lobbying is the reason.
Yeah. Where I live I get a message from our version of the IRS. They tell me how much taxes I’ve paid last year, and if I’m owed back taxes or if I owe more. If I don’t change it, I accept it. Easy.
It’s already like this with free tax returns. It just sucks you have to go through Intuit, because of their lobbying. The government is also counting on you to not properly doing your taxes. They want you to be lazy and pay more in taxes, for the convenience.
They don’t want to come after people who aren’t paying their taxes. They’re making it inconvenient to file, so poor people who don’t have time/ knowledge overpay.
You apparently misunderstood what I was saying. The IRS is testing a program where they tell you how much you get/owe, and that’s it unless you need to make changes like adding deductions or reporting unreported income.
That’s the free program they’re offering already, it’s through Intuit, though.
They specifically want you to neglect to report your deductions.
Unless you have more itemized deductions than the standardized deduction would save you, there’s not a point in reporting your deductions.
And you’d have to be in a pretty high income bracket or run your own business for that to happen.
I make upper middle class money and keep all receipts and such, and I’ve never had my itemized deductions surpass the standardized deduction. But every year I enter all of it just to see.
If you’re one of the people who do, then you’re likely already have a tax accountant doing your taxes for you.
No, it’s not the legacy “free file” program, which Intuit has actually opted out of.
It’s a new "Direct file" pilot program. It will automatically calculate your deductions and credits, as they are not in anyway trying to “stop you” from getting them.
No it’s not. They’re testing out direct filing in 13 states this year, cutting companies like Intuit out of the equation for a giant chunk of the population.
That sounds like how it works in my country. Every year is just log in, take a quick look at the numbers, sign and send it away. Takes a minute or two and it just works.
Testing for 13 states for now.
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Weird. My tax forms tell me how to fill it out. Super easy.
When you have a single income as an employee with no dependants or spouse, your taxes are dead simple. It’s when you have more things to consider that taxes get complex. If you own a small business on the side, have some kids, own a house, a wife, maybe you came into some money from an estate, also you did some contract work on 1099… That’s just normal people types of complex tax stuff. If your business does well, you can expect the adage “more money, more problems” to rear its ugly head.
It’s actually “More money, more problems. Unless you are a wealthy enough to get away with not paying taxes.”
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Okay, so I get the reason why NOWADAYS IRS can’t tell you how much taxes you owe is lobbying. But how did it work BEFORE computers? Did you file your forms and IRS agents checked them one by one, and it was just most efficient to check taxes instead of calculating them? How did we get to the situation where the IRS checks the taxes instead of calculating them? I’m genuinely curious, because that’s a recurring theme worldwide.
We have a “voluntary” tax system in the U.S. – that’s always been the situation. “Voluntary” doesn’t mean that that you can choose to not volunteer to pay your taxes. It mostly just means that the way we run things, by default, it is each citizen’s responsibility to calculate and pay their taxes each April.
American taxpayers filled out 1040 forms in the days before computers, a lot like they do now. The IRS selected certain fillings for audits, just like they do now – sometimes because of an apparent discrepancy, and sometimes just at random.
It would be a lot more work, take a lot more resources, and be prone to a lot more error and lawsuits, if the IRS tried to calculate everyone’s taxes for them. Even now that we are in the days of computers, it is much more efficient for the IRS to only audit a fraction of the filings submitted each year.
I’m also pretty sure our “voluntary” tax filling system has something to do with the Fourth Amendment and other privacy concerns. A lot of Americans very strongly believe that it is not the government’s place to be all up in their private business.
– EDIT to add:
There is a difference between whether it would be possible for the IRS to calculate individual citizens’ taxes and whether we should abandon our voluntary tax system for one in which the IRS simply calculates the taxes owed by every citizen and send us each a bill. My original response was intended to address the latter, but now I’ll say something about the former:
For someone whose single source of income is a job working for someone else, of course it is possible for the IRS to calculate your taxes. You’ve already volunteered all the information the IRS needs to do so. Your employer has already told the IRS exactly how much income you’ve earned and exactly how much of it you’ve had withheld for taxes. Remember when you signed that withholding paperwork with the HR department on your first day? That was the moment when you personally volunteered your income information and payments to the IRS. You’ve literally already been reporting your income and paying taxes on it ever since.
The way taxes work in practice for a single-income employee does not reveal the potential complexity of tax accounting for individuals who are self-employed, who have multiple sources of income, and anyone who doesn’t want to make regular fillings and withholding payments throughout the year. The tax situation for single-income American employees is not the situation for all Americans. Not everyone has an employer who calculates their taxes and pays installments for them throughout the year.
It is common for Americans to have a single job with an employer who calculates and pays their taxes for them. This makes it very easy for the IRS to know exactly how much the taxpayer owes (or is owed) at the end of the year. If it ends up feeling to like this is the same thing as the IRS calculating your taxes for you, however, I’m guessing it’s because you forgot that it’s actually your employer who’s been doing that accounting job for you all along, with each paycheck.
The IRS is confident it can do direct file for most american returns, which is why its running a pilot program this year to do just that.
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if the IRS tried to calculate everyone’s taxes for them
The IRS does calculate everyone’s taxes without an audit. If you mistype a bank statement you will get a bill or a check from the IRS (depending on whether the error was paying too much or too little).
An audit is completely different than the typical, "you typed $1000 in bank interest but you only really received $100 so here’s a check for the difference in taxes. This has happened to me many times over the years. It’s why I no longer get stressed over taxes because I know the IRS will just send me a bill or a check in 6 months to fix any mistakes.
The IRS calculates an employee’s taxes based on the income and withholding information provided to the IRS by the employer. The employee “volunteers” his tax information (and IRS witholding payment, if any) with each paycheck. The accounting for all this is listed right there on the paystub.
We had the same in France until not so long ago. It is a democratic principle that you voluntarily and freely pay your taxes, rather than the state take your money without you hvving a say in it.
It is both a principle of transparency and consent for taxes.
In reality -
Me: $600
IRS: are you a billionaire?
Me: what if I am?
IRS: $600 is too much
Damn y’all Americans really do taxes weird
It’s because our country is a corporate oligarchy.
Sounds cooler than it is
And it doesn’t even sound cool…
Sounds uncool as hell
Not if you’re an oligarch.
Americans as a whole are very stupid and don’t realize that the overwhelming majority of them can file for free. In fact, 100% of Americans can self-file (for free) if they can handle about an hour of basic paperwork, but for 70% of Americans, you can file taxes for free in less than twenty minutes. It’s not hard at all.
But most people would rather Google “how to file taxes,” click on the first sponsored link they see, and buy something before they ever actually try to do even a minute of research.
Tbf as a Swede I just log in, glance at the forms, sign and log out. That’s what easy is.
I’m not saying that filing in the US takes zero effort whatsoever, but you have some deeper problems if you don’t think five questions like “What does Box A on your paper form say?” isn’t just as easy.
You’re saying, “My car has 500 horsepower. That’s what fast is” to a guy with a 499hp car.
When I’m crippled by power harassment at the last 5 jobs, 2 of which are current, I just want to sign in and click okay and be done. Or click no and do paperwork, but only if the initial suggestion was incorrect.
It’s more like comparing an automatic gearbox to a manual IMO
if they can handle about an hour of basic paperwork,
People make it out like tax filing is like travelling to Ry’leh and transcribing eldritch runes, but it’s made pretty dead simple. Put the number from one box in piece of paper A into the corresponding box in piece of paper B. If it has you do a math, you can just… Do a math. Pull out your calculator and subtract the amount you’ve paid so far from the amount you owe. Is the result a negative number? Congratulations! You’re getting a return! Is the number positive? Oh no! That’s how much you need to pay the IRS!
I get that for some people it is significantly more complicated than that, but if you work one job where you make some number of dollars per hour and you don’t invest in the stock market or cryptocurrency, it’s virtually idiotproof.
People are afraid of trying and making mistakes because the consequences may be severe. When you get into stocks, crypto, homeownership, etc, the forma start piling up. I had a company mess up our taxes one year and correcting it, with a tax professional, took hours.
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Canada does this too. Do other countries just tell you? That’d be nice.
My country just tells you.
Yeah. Basically, we get a pre-filled form with most of what can automatically filled in, already filled in. Of course some stuff like donations (which are deductible) and other stuff that are not automatically linked to you have to be added by hand, but for a vast majority of people there is no such thing.
So basically, open the pre-filled form, check that the incomes and your current situation is correct, send it back, then you basically get the amount (which can be either automatically collected through direct debit at a given date, split monthly, or paid manually).
We usually argue about why and how much tax we pay, but I never had any heated discussion about the tax system itself.
I actually haven’t done my taxes in like 2 years due to extreme poverty (in the u.s you don’t have to file if your income is under a certain threshold) I think I’m still under that, but I still should probably file this year right? Is there anything specific I should do? Maybe not the best place to ask, but I hate financial anything so I’d really appreciate some advice
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Just a PSA, the IRS recently instituted some kind of AI algorithm that is re-flagging a lot of things that have already been resolved… a friend got a bill for $1500 which they had earlier sent a letter of apology for. He doesn’t actually owe anything, it’s just the glitchy algorithm sending the old bill out again.
If you don’t understand why you owe more, don’t just give up and pay it. The IRS can make mistakes too.
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Lol I never said ignore it. Just don’t blindly pay without looking into it.
Years ago they actually sent me a check because they thought I should have taken a deduction that I didn’t. I didn’t want to get on a gotcha list, so I sent back a letter explaining that the deduction was not proper for my situation, and they responded that if that was the case, I needed to file an amended return. That was way more energy than I wanted to spend on this issue, so I just ignored the check… until the next year, when they mailed me another one with a tartly-worded form letter about the importance of promptly depositing it, and again the year after. At that point I figured if Uncle Sam is that desperate for me to take the money I’d indulge him. At this point I’m well past the statute of repose for any potential issues that created, so I think I’m in the clear, but I guess we’ll see.
I mean, if they make that mistake, they can’t demand more back than they sent you. Look at it as an interest-free loan, invest it into something that’ll reliably earn more money over time, and if Uncle Sam ever wants it back, you’ve still made a profit
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You guess with a calculator and detailed instructions. Educated guess.
Here in Sweden they just come finalised. There may be occasions where you’ll need to make changes, but that’s literally never happened to me. “Doing taxes” involves me logging onto a website, skimming over a page or so, and then digitally signing it using my phone. Takes less than five minutes.
Blows my mind that you have to file tax returns and stuff in America.
An account’s take on this https://youtu.be/Vu3T4ZXzOyw?si=KnAP2TEvx9WSLzno
