The trial over an effort in Minnesota to keep former President Donald Trump off of the 2024 ballot began Thursday at the state Supreme Court as a similar case continued in Colorado.
The lawsuits in both states allege Trump should be barred from the 2024 ballot for his conduct leading up to the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol. They argue Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election results violated Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which says no one who has “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” after swearing an oath to support and defend the Constitution can hold office.
A group of Minnesota voters, represented by the election reform group Free Speech for People, sued in September to remove Trump from the state ballot under the 14th Amendment provision. The petitioners include former Minnesota Secretary of State Joan Growe and former state Supreme Court Justice Paul H. Anderson.
God I love this state. I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else
Minnesota is pretty great. I moved up here from Florida while Rick “Defraud Medicare” Scott was governor, people kinda thought I was nuts but it’s become pretty clear that was an excellent decision.
Florida is a wild place where you go to test your immune system it seems. A safe haven for REAL PATRIOTS.
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Rick Scott was a Florida governor
I’m aware, but that doesn’t really answer the question I asked.
Edit: lol at everyone downvoting a genuine question. It’s pathetic how angry people get when someone is confused. The Lemmy community is quickly becoming exactly like Reddit in some of its most toxic qualities.
That’s because your question was a non sequitur. Why is a raven like a writing desk?
Poe wrote on both
I tried writing on a chicken with a sharpie once but it started being a little pecker about it.
No soap, radio!
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Are you trolling? It’s obvious based on OPs comment that they think moving from Florida to Minnesota was a good decision, to get away from Rick “defraud medicare” Scott.
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They were saying moving was the good idea.
The very fact that we cant throw these particular bank robbers in prison because they stole so much money that they are now too big to jail, is an indictment of our entire system
I wish MN could have a case for Trump beyond this one. The MN Court would have a field day
Say that in February.
I live in this state, winter is my second favorite season
so do I winter is my second most hated season. (Okay, I love spring and autumn. 60’s and sunshine. for 2 weeks out of the year.)
I would prefer for 40% of the country to not be imbeciles that would cast a ballot for him in the first place . . .
This will go to the corrupt supreme court, which will determine that this part of the constitution doesn’t count
Technically Minnesota doesn’t have to allow anyone on its ballots, if they have legal justification to prevent them. And there is precedent for this. Alabama kept Harry Truman off their ballot in 1948, even though he was the incumbent president.
If Trump is convicted in Georgia he would run afoul of Minnesota fair campaign section of the state constitution (211B), or hell, I think he has already been fined for infractions that qualify as legal justification to remove him from the ballot in MN based on both campaign finance laws and the fair campaigns section of the MN state constitution.
As the GOP has been doing for the last decade, they have been eroding the federal ability to monitor and manage states’ elections (reducing the voting rights act, etc) current precedent is that the state has the right to handle matters with regard to elections with near impunity.
While the court has its issues, it doesn’t seem to care to side particularly with Trump. They’ve had a few opportunities and have so far mostly sided against or at least failed to side with Trump in matters that either made it that far or tried to make it that far.
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Or, even better, that this part of the constitution doesn’t count for this specific person, in this specific case, at this specific time.
But that it counts for anyone else, at any other time.
Coming up with some asinine excuse to let him off, would in fact be providing aid and comfort to an insurrectionist. That person should also be removed from office (if office counts as any public service beyond presidency and congress)
That person should also be removed from office (if office counts as any public service beyond presidency and congress)
Who will do the removing?
The people
Hmm, does the supreme Court have jurisdiction over how states conduct elections?
You see though this 17th century witch burner once wrote a speech that said our laws don’t matter.
I think it’s important to point out that this disqualification under section 3 of the 14th amendment does not require conviction of a crime. Anyone who has previously taken oath as a member of the US government can be disqualified from holding office if they “have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.” There is enough of an argument that just providing comfort to insurrectionists is enough to disqualify.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-14/section-3/
I’d like to think so, but it really is up to the court to interpret that language.
State Rights!
OHHHHH, he never said support!!! Get lawyered bitches!!! Oh wait, the courts don’t give a shit about technicalities? Well fuck me!
Except the current Supreme Court who has repeatedly thrown precedent out the window to read the Constitution as intending to be both literal to modern language and assuming it was not intended to be interpreted with modern technology and crises in mind.
Look if the founding fathers wanted to restrict my right to bear thermonuclear arms they shoulda added an addendum to the second amendment. Those "fore"fathers didn’t have much foresight. Now let me buy plutonium.
Save y’all sometime: it finds its way to the Supreme Court and Thomas, the rapist, and Roberts shit all over it claiming that they lack standing.
Let’s not forget about Kavanagh, the other rapist.
Maybe he can ask Gangbang Greg to write the majority opinion.
I see real chance that this is Civil War 2 in the making.
let them shit or get off the pot, then. MAGA has been trying to extort us with the threat of civil war for years now.
Doubtful too fat, lazy and old and we whooped the racists in the last one anyway. We’ll fucking do it again.
And even before that, none of these wingnuts can even agree with each other within their “own” side. Even the January 6th insurrection attempt was complete disorganized chaos, and that clusterfuck was the closest they ever got to being organized. They’ll spend more time bickering and turning on each other for dumbshit reasons (“Look, this guy is wearing elevator shoes!”) than accomplishing any actual objectives. I’m sure lone fuckheads can cause localized destruction and chaos here and there if they felt like it, but that’ll never amount to an overthrow of anything.
I’m also not convinced most of the people there on Jan 6 expected to actually accomplish anything. Most seemed just like idiot hooligans who wanted to fuck shit up. They didn’t have any clue what they’d do long term.
I think you’re right. Most of the Jan 6 seditionists were just there to have a rally. Most. Some legitimately traitorous people planned to do some heinous shit under the cover of the mob. That’s why it was allowed to get out of control; it was part of the plan.
I dunno, if that laughably inept shit he pulled on Jan 6 was his beer hall putch I don’t think this guy could manage a civil war. You may be giving him too much credit.
God I want this so so bad! But I don’t think it will happen since he has yet to be convicted of the crime. Hate to say it but innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. Hope that happens sooner rather then later
Conviction might be helpful, but is not actually necessary for this to work.
I’m confused about this as well. Why is this trial happening before one that would bring criminal charges for the insurrection to lock him up? If he lost such a trial, he would be automatically banned from running, right? Or is the required evidence different for this one and that’s why they go with it?
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Okay say they’re successful I have a question about write ins, will they count that towards his total? Or is he completely removed from running and being voted for in that state?
Doesn’t the language say they aren’t eligible to hold office? Even if they were written in they couldn’t technically accept, legally and election officialls would be banned from counting the person’s votes.
With maga corrupt officials in some states tho who knows.
How many states’ ballot papers can he afford to lose before he is no longer a viable candidate for the GOP?
After Jan 6? All if them.
So how is the verdict getting picked up by Congress
Huh?
OP is referring to this, and I’m not sure how to interpret it.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
If they’re already elected and serving then Congress has to decide how they’re punished.
This makes sense cuz Congress has its own ethic committees.They’re broke. And ineffective but they’re there.
The text of the 14th amendment says Congress gets to take a vote on the issue.
Not exactly.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The distinction is that congress can- with a 2/3’s vote of both the Senate and Representatives- remove the prohibition, not that they have a say in him being barred.
In any case, good luck getting a 2/3’a majority vote in either body, nevermind both.
Didn’t Clinton and Obama lead the charge to override that for McCain back in 2008? If I recall correctly, he was born on a military base or something that technically might not have been the US, so they did the right thing and made it a non-issue. Of course the GOP responded in kind by spending the next 8 years claiming Obama was lying about being born in the US. Stay classy, GOP.
I’m not really sure what the relevance here is?
McCain was a US citizen- but he was born on a US military base in Panama (because his parents were stationed there.) They were both US citizens. There is absolutely no reason to believe McCain was inelligible because he was not a “natural born” citizen. (IIRC, the distinction is that one was always a US citizen, that is, your parents were both citizens and you inherited citizen ship from them, as apposed to having been a citizen of elsewhere and having immigrated to the US.)
it was basically a bullshit excuse. and while you’re right, the GOP didn’t return the favor with Obama… this is a patently different matter.
I’m not really sure what the relevance here is?
The 14th amendment says that 2/3rds of Congress can vote to override citizenship requirements, I pointed to an example where that’s actually happened in recent history where some were arguing that a presidential candidate might not be eligible to run (https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html), Congress voted to make that a non-issue, and you don’t see the relevance? Ok, guess I can’t really help ya much more. Have a good day, I guess?
The 14th amendment says that 2/3rds of Congress can vote to override citizenship requirements,
wut??? where? The full text:
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Section three says that congress can allow somebody who has engaged in insurrection to be eligible. it says nothing about allowing naturalized citizens to be made eligible by congress.
Further, in point of fact, the McCain thing had everything to do with technicalities of vaguley described definitions. Some idiots were arguing that McCain was inelibible because he wasn’t born on US soil. Despite having two parent who were both US citizens- and were in Panama on military orders.
Finally, Congress did not pass a law or do anything that had the force of law to support McCain, or to make him ineligible when he was not. it was a non-binding resolution that basically said, “hey we see this bullshit.” McCain was already eligible because he was a citizen by birth… the idiots were trying to argue that he was ineligible because he wasn’t born on US soil which… is stupid.
And again, McCain is largely irrelevant.
Nope, it says congress can vote to give traitors a pass but that just being a traitor is enough to disqualify you
if a country wants someone to be a president, they should become the president. beat him in the polls, not through copout legal mumbo jumbo that certainly will be challenged and overruled.
As much as I hate Trump, if you think he’s the worst the Republicans can come up with you’re dead wrong. Him getting the nomination means they won’t get someone who is both worse and might actually win. I wish they would stop trying to fuck things up and just let the dumpster fire take its course.
Don’t kid yourself, Trump could actually win. He should not be allowed to run, but he won’t concede and he won’t stop as long as it benefits him to stay in the race.
Now imagine the legal clusterfuck if he is kept off the ballot and wins a write-in campaign.
There isn’t a “good” Republican candidate who can challenge him. The ones still in the primary, Christie, DeSantis, the crazy one with zero name recognition, none of them can catch him in the polls. They’re just staying in the race hoping Trump is forced to withdraw.
Write-in campaigns have different rules in different states. It’s a logistical nightmare for him to win this way. Besides, American voters are lazy as fuck. Think 10’s of millions will take the time to scratch his name on a ballot?
Now imagine the legal clusterfuck if he is kept off the ballot and wins a write-in campaign.
But that would require his fanbase knowing how to write and spell. There is a very good chance they are too lazy to do it too.
Maybe you’re right. Trump is such an idiot he’ll be running independently even if he’s banned from half the states which will take votes from whatever other asshat they replace him with.
That would be great for democracy, because it might break up the GOP and create demand for more equitable voting practices, like ranked choice. Plus, they’d lose by an unchallengeable margin.
The GOP breaking up, which won’t happen, would be terrible for democracy. No way rank choice is going to be rolled out under single party rule. As bad as two parties are, one party is a nightmare.
Nah, I’m saying that the GOP, in an effort to salvage their own party and relevance, will support ranked choice voting to let voters pick Trump and a second choice. I don’t expect the GOP to actually split permanently, but Trump isn’t going to bow out. So if they want to run a candidate who hasn’t been indicted for nearly 100 different charges, ranked choice would be a boon.
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Yep, Trump can’t win unless D voters stay home in droves.
No one talks about this, but the man cannot gain supporters, only lose them. After the last 8-years of his horseshit, no one is suddenly going to decide they like the guy.
We shouldn’t act like it’s a lock, kinda how we did with Clinton. But this is far different. Trump is now a known quantity. No one is going to say, “Hell with it. I’ll vote for him and see what happens.”
