The article accuses Israel of potentially committing war crimes in its conflict with Hamas, focusing on a siege on Gaza, airstrikes harming civilians, and evacuation orders. It criticizes the U.S. for not condemning Israel’s actions and emphasizes the need for diplomatic solutions. The piece argues that Israel’s approach could backfire politically and suggests that there’s no military solution to the conflict. It calls for the U.S. to exercise influence to deter such actions, asserting it’s in the interests of both the U.S. and Israel to prevent further civilian casualties and maintain regional stability.

  • Ace0fBlades@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This whole situation feels like what Putin dreamed would have happened with Ukraine. A very public and brutal attack on civilians responded to with a disproportionate level of military force with the end result being the land of the initial aggressor belonging to the perceived victim.

    Putin had to invent an excuse, but he would have loved a reason such as this. Combined with Israel possessing one of the foremost intelligence agencies in the world and Egypt warning of an impending attack; this feels like, if not planned, a welcome event for the current Israeli administration.

    • xdr@lemmynsfw.com
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      1 year ago

      Funny how Ukraine is being supported for the reason of “fighting occupation” that is Russia and russia bad.

      At the same time, Palestine is being given collective punishment because they are terrorists for fighting for their human rights and water and food and medicine and their own homeland.

      • nexusband@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Well the issue is how they fight… It’s a bit more complicated and not just black and white.

      • GreenM@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I don’t know (wo)man, somehow I can’t image bunch of Ukrainians gliding into Moscow’s music festival and youths facilities with aim of killing as many as possible as brutally as possible.
        I would compare Hamas rather to Chechen back when Russia invaded them. And Russia killed their own people in at least two occasions when mass taken as hostages in that time.

    • deranger@sh.itjust.works
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      I thought Russia was the initial aggressor against Ukraine. Where’s the retaliatory angle in that conflict? Did Ukraine kidnap people from a music festival like Hamas?

      • Ace0fBlades@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Russia absolutely is the initial aggressor in the Ukraine conflict, but emphatically insists they are responding to a threat from the Ukraine in their propaganda.

      • prole@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Do you think this attack on the music festival is the first thing that’s ever happened between Israel and Palestine? Surely you’re not that stupid.

        Israel is an occupying force and they’re forcibly removing Palestinian civilians from their family homes. They are the aggressors. They are “Russia” in this analogy.

  • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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    Israeli president Isaac Herzog, while allowing that Gazan civilians weren’t legitimate military targets, nevertheless suggested that they bear responsibility for Hamas’s actions, saying, “They could have risen up, they could have fought against the evil regime”

    Hamas has also said the same thing about Israelis, saying that they elected war criminals and hence every Israeli has some amount of guilt. Do Israelis not hear themselves? They’re only validating the terrorists with this rhetoric.

    • Dreamer@lemmy.world
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      It’s interesting what happens when the rhetoric used is applied to both sides.

      • Why don’t the citizens of Israel stand up against their governments war crimes?

      • If the citizens of Israel didn’t all want to be complicit in their government’s war crimes, why haven’t they risen up to outlaw mandatory military service?

      • Why don’t the citizens of Israel do anything about the settlers committing terrorist acts in plains clothes, and instead just let them blend with the rest of the population?

      • Why do the citizens of Israel not stand against their military protecting, supporting, legitimizing the terrorist acts of the settlers?

      The list goes on…

      • Sybil@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Why don’t the citizens of Israel stand up against their governments war crimes?

        they have

        Why do the citizens of Israel not stand against their military protecting, supporting, legitimizing the terrorist acts of the settlers?

        they have

    • prole@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Victim blaming on a national scale.

      (The Palestinian people, not Hamas. Before some IDF shills jump on my wording)

      • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Biden, and any US president, is pro-military industrial complex. Anything that lets them sell more weapons and increase US hegemony is what their ideology is.

        • Echo71Niner@lemm.eeOP
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          1 year ago

          I never said that, if you thought that I did, you are an idiot.

      • kibiz0r@lemmy.world
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        I don’t think Biden has an ideological bone in his body. Supporting Israel is just good business. Simple as.

      • prole@sh.itjust.works
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        Why would you single out Biden, when people in our Congress can’t even say, out loud, anything critical of Israel (no matter how valid) without facing a real risk of losing their entire political career?

        You’d only single him out if you had an agenda. Surely you don’t have an agenda, right?

  • febra@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I mean… when has the US ever backed off from committing war crimes?

    • Echo71Niner@lemm.eeOP
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      My Lai Massacre, Abu Ghraib Prison, Drone Strikes, Guantanamo Bay… list goes on.

    • Copernican@lemmy.world
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      To be fair, it is New York mag. So New York is to some degree, a frame of reference for the readers of it.

    • GreenM@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I guess we can be glad they didn’t say something like size of very big boulder this time.

  • avater@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Wasn’t there an article yesterday that the US asked for restrained actions even against the hamas?

  • GladiusB@lemmy.world
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    US Government. Most of us wants everyone to stop killing each other and our leaders to shut the fuck up and figure out our own problems.

  • ZaroniPepperoni@lemmy.world
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    Article:

    Photo: Abed Zagout/Anadolu via Getty Images

    The legality of a war effort under international law hinges on two primary criteria. The first concerns a military campaign’s ends: States are generally forbidden from using force against those beyond their borders for any purpose except self-defense. The second criteria concerns the war effort’s means. States may not deliberately target civilians nor disproportionately harm them in service of their war aims.

    Israel’s campaign against Hamas meets that first criterion. The conflict between the Palestinians of Gaza and the Israeli government is not truly one between distinct states. Israel exercises effective sovereignty over Gaza, controlling the movement of its people, barring them from a portion of its territory, and regulating its import and export of goods. Nevertheless, when a militant group murders more than a thousand of a state’s people, that state has cause for war against the militant group.

    But Israel’s means of war against Hamas runs afoul of international law. Israel has imposed a complete siege on Gaza, denying its 2 million inhabitants access to electricity, food, water, and fuel. Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant justified these measures on the grounds that “we are fighting human animals, and we act accordingly.”

    Volker Turk, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, told the New York Times Thursday that “the imposition of sieges that endanger the lives of civilians by depriving them of goods essential for their survival is prohibited under international humanitarian law.”

    Tom Dannenbaum, an expert on siege law at Tufts University, affirmed this assessment, describing Israel’s policy as an abnormally clear-cut instance of starving civilians as a means of war, an unambiguous violation of human rights.

    Israel’s aerial bombardment of Gaza also appears to flout international law’s prohibition of the disproportionate killing of civilians. The Israeli Air Force has dropped more than 6,000 bombs on a stretch of land roughly the size of Queens. Its targets have included hospitals and schools. By its own account, Israel has not been firing “warning strikes” to encourage civilians to exit a given building before incinerating it. As of this writing, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, Israel’s airstrikes have killed more than 1,799 people, including 583 children. According to the ministry, 60 percent of all the injured are women or children.

    On Friday, Israel ordered 1 million Gazans to evacuate the northern part of the strip, in advance of an Israeli ground invasion set to begin at around 8 p.m. local time. The United Nations has said that it considers such an evacuation logistically impossible. The number of people is too large, the transport infrastructure too damaged, and, thanks to the Israeli siege, the resources necessary to care for 1 million uprooted people are too scarce. In this context, the order looks like a means of excusing the reckless endangerment of the lives of any civilians who remain in place.

    For its part, the Israeli government is doing little to counter the impression that it has contempt for the civilians in Gaza. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised retribution that will “reverberate for generations.” The Israeli general Ghassan Aliyan has declared, “You wanted hell — you will get hell.”

    Israeli president Isaac Herzog, while allowing that Gazan civilians weren’t legitimate military targets, nevertheless suggested that they bear responsibility for Hamas’s actions, saying, “They could have risen up, they could have fought against the evil regime, which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”

    The Israeli Air Force, meanwhile, proudly advertised its decimation of entire city blocks.

    The U.S. government has done little to deter Israel from committing war crimes. It has declined to reject Israel’s evacuation order. “We’re going to be careful not to get into armchair-quarterbacking the tactics on the ground” of the Israel Defense Forces, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Friday. “What I can tell you is we understand what they’re trying to do. They’re trying to move civilians out of harm’s way and giving them fair warning.”

    Meanwhile, the administration has forbidden State Department officials from releasing statements that call for “de-escalation/ceasefire,” an “end to violence/bloodshed,” or “restoring calm.” A White House spokesperson decried congressional progressives’ advocacy for a ceasefire as “repugnant” and “disgraceful.”

    Late Friday, Fox News reported that the White House has encouraged Israel to delay its ground invasion until safe passage for Palestinian civilians out of northern Gaza can be secured. This is better than nothing. But it leaves Israel’s reckless siege and aerial bombardment campaign unchallenged.

    This is a patent failure of moral leadership. The U.S. has the power to exert some influence over Israeli strategy. The primary cost of its acquiescence to Israeli war crimes will be the deaths of a grotesque number of innocent Gazans. A secondary cost will be a decline in America’s standing in the world in general and the Middle East in particular. It is not in America’s national interest to abet the mass killing of Palestinian civilians.

    Indeed, it is not in Israel’s best interests for the United States to do so. As Hussein Ibish notes in The Atlantic, Hamas quite likely intended to provoke Israel into mounting a response that would earn it international condemnation and make it impossible for Saudi Arabia to pursue the normalization of relations.

    Israel may prize the complete destruction of Hamas over its international reputation. But the idea that one can eliminate support for terrorist resistance within a community by incinerating thousands of its civilians is ludicrous. There is no military solution to Israel’s security problem short of ethnic cleansing or genocide. It may impair Hamas’s operative capacities through the targeted assassination of its leaders or by scaling back its illegal settlement project in the West Bank so as to free up soldiers to guard its border with Gaza. But Israel cannot extinguish the problem of Palestinian resistance through the commission of atrocities.

    It is therefore not only a humanitarian imperative for Israel to exercise greater restraint, but also a geostrategic one. As Ibish writes,

    Outrageous overreach by terrorists typically aims to provoke overreach. Washington and other friends of Israel who are now seized with sympathy should immediately caution Israel not to make this blunder. If Israel instead exercises restraint, however difficult doing so might be both politically and emotionally, it can thwart the goals of Hamas and its Iranian sponsors. Restraint would go a long way toward ensuring that the diplomatic opening with Saudi Arabia continues to move forward, dealing a major blow to local revisionist powers, such as Iran, and global ones, such as China and Russia, that wish to supplant a rules-based order with one based on “Might makes right.”
    

    The United States has the power to deter the worst excesses of Israel’s present campaign. Exercising that power would be in the best interests of not only Gazans, but the U.S. and Israel. It was cycles of retributive violence that birthed our current nightmare. If we help Israel to perpetuate those cycles, then the arc of the region’s history will bend back toward hell. The U.S. Is Giving Israel Permission for War Crimes

  • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is another reason having a 2 party system is horrendous, when one of the parties is batshit crazy.

    I think Biden should put pressure on Israel to calm down, but I’m not going to risk wasting political capital on this issue, because if we lose the next election we’ll get the insane Republicans, in which case the whole world is fucked, not just Gaza.

  • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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    Israel walked into a trap. Hamas knew Israel would retaliate and do so in a major way. That was inevitable. But they also knew that overdoing it would cause Israel’s new Arab allies to face some tough questions as to why they were supporting such a regime that kills Arabs at a 10:1 ratio.

    • iByteABit [he/him]@lemm.ee
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      This is like suggesting that emptying a round of an AK on someone that punched you is somehow “walking into a trap”

  • Guydht@lemmy.world
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    What is Israel supposed to do? They got proof that Palestinians will never live with them in peace. In fact, they got that proof for centuries, but only now it’s plain as day. Is Israel supposed to lose this war? Are they seriously the only country in this world which isn’t allowed to defend itself? They owe nothing to Palestinians. They owe everything to the kidnapped who are still to this second held captive under savages who rape women and parade distorted bodies.

    • Echo71Niner@lemm.eeOP
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      What is Israel supposed to do? They got proof that Palestinians will never live with them in peace.

      ISRAEL’S OCCUPATION: 50 YEARS OF DISPOSSESSION.

      This Amnesty International article from 2017 discusses the challenges faced by Palestinians in the West Bank due to Israeli military closures and restrictions. These include checkpoints, roadblocks, and settler-only roads that make daily tasks like commuting to work or school difficult. The construction of a 700-km fence/wall, ostensibly for security reasons, has disrupted Palestinian communities, separated families, and hindered access to essential services and resources. The article also addresses issues of water allocation, highlighting the disparity between Israeli and Palestinian water consumption. The international community is called upon to recognize and rectify these injustices and restrictions in the occupied territories.

      https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/