one day we will just stick with daylight time. its kind of a slap in the face to lose your only hour of sunlight after work!
Now if only all people, managers, businesses, unions, realized they could set what time they worked to whatever the hell they wanted within reason, moved to somewhere closer to the equator, got up earlier to use the morning instead of the night, did stuff at night…
Either way, we need to do away with the switching lol.
Eh…I think we need to do away with the concept of money, and work, and managers owning the majority of our time.
You think a cat gives a fuck what time Starbucks closes??? Hell no! They just sleep on your bed, or on the floor, or on a table, or on the stairs, or anywhere they want, anytime they want. And they make SURE you are always looking at their butthole.
You think you can just go into starbucks, and present your butthole, to all who look at you, while also sleeping on their counter? I mean, you’re TOTALLY in the way, and making everyones lives more inconvienent…but fuck 'em, ya know?
You can’t do ANY of that! Because for some reason, we’ve all decided that little green paper controls our lives.
Or in the case of Canada, multicolored monopoly money.
You think you can just go into starbucks, and present your butthole, to all who look at you, while also sleeping on their counter?
I mean, anybody can do pretty much anything they want at least once.
Hey, Black Ass!
Permanent daylight time gives us all of the downsides and exactly one benefit. I’m sorry you live that far North/South but that’s just how the seasons and tilt of the earth work. We shouldn’t be doing split time at all and we shouldn’t endeavor to be an hour off the rest of the world just so commuters can drive home with the sun in their eyes.
It’s not just north or south
You’re using a tilted and flattened map. Look at the US on Google Earth. It’s not level with latitude lines, and the northern states are expanded on any flat representation.
This is most noticeable at the equator, where there is no large variation. (There’s about 8 minutes difference due to secondary things, not axial tilt.)
… do you believe the person made the image for this comment? What evidence is shown in the image for you to believe that the tilt and shape of the earth wasn’t taken into consideration for the graphic, besides it being shown as a 2d image?
Because the reasons for the varying lengths of day are well known It’s more an exercise in figuring out why the map has such slanting in it.
You’re just like almost there, that graph isn’t about lengths of days. It’s an arbitrary representation of what someone would consider a “normal” time for the sun to set and rise. The gradient in colors is because of the shape of the earth, the blocky lines are probably the cut off counties/states that follow different timezones (would need to verify source for that though). I’ve gotta split but hopefully someone can explain it better in the mean time if you have more questions.
Thank you. You did a great job explaining it.
The gradients change based on time zones. You’ll see how they line up.
Walking over a time zone line changes time one hour, but the sunset time doesn’t magically change an hour.
Like say you are standing between Georgia and Alabama. If you walk into Georgia the sun will set at around 5:30pm EST. If you walk into Alabama the sun will set at around 4:30pm CST.
The sun is setting one hour earlier in Alabama but you are basically watching the exact same sunset.
As you go further west into Alabama the time zone change “makes more sense” because the time zone being exactly between Alabama and Georgia doesn’t make sense other than them being separate states.
Sioux Falls SD is 43.5460°N
Rapid City SD is 44.0805°N
Sioux Falls Sunset is at 5:13pm CST
Rapid City Sunset is at 4:38pm MST
If both cities were in CST, Rapid City sun would set at 5:38pm CST
Due to the latitude difference, the sunsets should be 25 minutes apart
However, they are 35 minutes apart due to the time zone difference
If you said “Sioux Falls is farther south than Rapid City” and tried to base sunset time on just that, you’d be wrong.
And? We’re not abolishing timezones any time soon. So there’s always going to be that issue of the easternmost and westernmost towns in a time zone. That’s not a reason for anything.
Like I said, “It’s not just north or south.”
Time zones change the sunset time east and west as well.
Abolishing time zones has nothing to do with “fixing” daylight savings.
Even if we all switched to UTC and got rid of time zones . Everyone would have to decide when to go to bed, when to wake up, and when to work to fit it around the sun.
5:13pm CST is 11:13pm UTC
If Sioux Falls wanted to stay “standard time” for the sun. They would have to start work at 3pm UTC and get off work at 11pm UTC. (9am to 5pm)
Yet they could decide that they wanted to get “daylight savings time” for the sun, they would start work at 2pm UTC and get off at 10pm UTC. They would get one extra hour of sun after work instead of before.
Okay we’re not talking about the same thing here.
The length of your day is not defined by your time zone. It is defined by your latitude, how far north of the equator you are. X degrees north gets Y hours of sunlight at N time of year.
It’s that simple. So instead of creating a fucking nightmare for commerce and programming, we should be working the hours that make sense. Being on the western edge of a time zone means your work hours should be different than on the Eastern edge.
If you shift the zone, you’re not going to get more sunlight, you’re going to get a later time to go home from your boss. The problem isn’t the time zone. It’s capitalism demanding you work the entire day away even though productivity has increased massively and we work far more than our ancestors from supposedly dreary times.
That’s why shifting the time zone is, at most, going to get you the sun in your eyes as you drive home. It’s not going to give you any more hours of sunlight. Those don’t magically appear. And it wastes energy as people try to heat the coldest part of the day instead of staying under their blankets. Savings Time literally is the worst option except in the one regard of trying to preserve afternoon light for people rich enough to enjoy it.
I say this every year: FUUUUUUUUCK THAT.
With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900. That’s fucking absurd. All across the US kids would be waiting for the school bus in the dark, walking to those bus stops in the dark. My personal beef with it is that I, and many of the people that make the world go 'round, start at 0600. We need to see ASAP for safety, if nothing else.
The US tried it in the early '70s, didn’t even finish the two year trial period:
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1087280464/the-u-s-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-1970s-then-quickly-rejected-Fuck DST. If people really want it to stay light until 2100 in the summer then so be it but don’t make a lot of the working class labor half their day in the dark in the depths of winter.
Kids all across the US are waiting at the bus in the dark anyway.
Not everyone gets to get on a bus after sunrise.
The better answer is to just quit switching altogether, and socially adjust everything to x hours pre mid-day sun.
With everything being connected these days it’s trivial (hell, industrial clocks have been tied to electrical frequency since 1900, so it’s always been trivial to compensate them).
If “6am” slowly moved every day due to when mid-day sun/sunrise occurs, no one would even notice.
Maybe instead of focusing on 6 am we just accept that noon makes sense as when the sun is highest in the sky (or close as we can get with timezones) and that the time the sun comes up will change throughout the year.
In the north? Here in the middle of the country it’s reasonable.
I say keep the time at either at ST or DST and let the different institutions/businesses decide their hours of operation. I’ll bet you after a year or two, 99% will settle on something and keep it throughout the year.
Found the ancient Mesopotamian…
There’s a lot of commerce that would actually be disrupted by doing that. Software developers would certainly riot.
My personal complaint is that I would have an extra hour of work in the dark, and DST does that to me anyway. My schedule is earlier than office workers and I like it.
Even my days off are early and it’s great. I know the country is going to go permanent DST eventually and I’ll adapt, but it’s still stupid IMO.
Detroit is an interesting one.
If Detroit kept DST permanent, the sun would basically set after 6pm every day.
However. Like you said, no one wants to wait until the 9am for the sun to rise.
Abolishing DST could be beneficial for Detroit. Not as many days where the sun sets after 6. But more days where it rises before 7.
The current system is bad for Detroit. It should either abolish it or keep it permanent.
Detroit night owls would want to keep it, early birds would want to abolish it.
Detroit is like El Paso TX. Where the current system is clearly bad.
Maine is the opposite. The current system is “best” and the birds and owls fight.
I live in Charlotte NC. I’ve always been for DST. Permanent DST means basically 365 days where the sun sets after 6pm. While getting basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7am. I’m not an early riser, so as long as it’s up by 8/9am most of the time it’s fine with me.
Arizona has it right. What I want in Charlotte shouldn’t matter to what you want in Detroit.
You hate DST, I like it. You should be able to get rid of it, I should be able to keep it.
Different places are affected by it much more or less. People are owls or birds. You can’t make everybody happy with one option.
Maine is so far away from everything else it could be in it’s own time zone. That’s why it is a strange case.
Never really thought about Detroit being almost directly north of Charlotte.
Red lines are current time zones. Red circle is El Paso. Blue lines are if you equally cut US into 4 time zones.
Detroit is to the right of the red line. It has 3 boxes to reach the beginning of the time zone which is just to the right of Maine. (Sorry didn’t draw it)
El Paso being in the circle makes it 3 boxes to reach the beginning of time zone just like Detroit and why it is in the similar situation with DST.
The right two time zones are large time zones. The left two are only 2 boxes wide.
Maine should be in a separate time zone than Detroit
Detroit should probably move to CST. Then, argue about daylight savings time in the summer to be EST (Not EDT)
Sounds like something you’d like, maybe?
It’s clearly a complex issue. I didn’t realize that Eastern and Central were so much bigger than Mountain and Pacific, honestly. Central is crazy across the southern US.
Normally I don’t mind the change so much but it’s kicking my ass this fall for some reason. I don’t actually live in Detroit, I just know it’s one of the more extreme examples like El Paso (but they just want to stick with the rest of TX anyway). I live in CO and wake up early; Looking at Fig1 it’s obvious that I would like it abolished but most here would like it permanent. lol, poor Utah.
I dunno, the majority of people seem to want permanent, I know CO has a law saying as soon as Congress allows it we’re going to stay on DST. So it’s coming, but I don’t have to like it.
Fuck DST.
I just realized that El Paso is actually in MST. They must have hated it so bad not to stick with the rest of Texas. But whoever lives in the farthest point west but still in CST is being screwed. Same with EST.
Funny the section of Texas that is in MST is three tiny blocks, basically the same width as all of Michigan. Texas is big lol.
Michigan should probably move to CST
When I think of Colorado I think of it being way north. You could live in Colorado and be as north as someone living in Raleigh NC almost. That’s wild.
Yeah Colorado seems to appear to be all up to preference on the choices. It’s at the start of a time zone. People on the east lean towards permanent MDT, People on the west lean towards permanent MST.
Im guessing that you live towards the west side. Yet if most people around you seem to want it, then maybe you live on east side lol
You can’t make the days longer and I still think the sun in the afternoon/evening is more useful.
It’s true moving the clocks around doesn’t do anything. But I know my kids wanted more hours of daylight after school not before school.
Though I also think school ought to start closer to 9:00.
Do you like the time change, or do you want to stick to standard time?
My preference is to stick to standard. If people insist on DST I acquiesce.
I know I could just go live in Arizona, but then I’d have to live in Arizona.
Flagstaff is nice. Williams and Winslow are nice if you’re fully remote. Anything South of Camp Verde or Prescott is just ridiculous though.
If people insist on DDT I aquiesce.
No. Fuck them. If I’m get a Spring Forward I’m owed a goddamned Fall Back. I spend half a year with an hour’s deficit so people going home to watch Netflix after work can pretend they give a damn about an extra hour of sunlight.
Give me Standard Time or pay to move my ass to the West a couple hundred miles to fix it.
Ah yes, that darn hour of sunlight you lose.
I honestly think the 24 hour daylight weeks would be worse.
You get used to it. Blinds are you friend, but driving is the worst. The sun is always in your eyes.
Start working hours earlier.
Wow, great suggestion. I assume you’ll be contacting the people at my company in charge of defining when I must be at work?
I wish they would do this a week ago, so the kids could experience halloween how it’s supposed to be, IN THE FUCKING DARK
Blame congress too, since they passed the bill.
Tbf it not being in the dark might save some kids from being hit by a car. (Not saying that switching daylight time is the actual root of that problem…)
pretty sure the changing the clock itself hits more kids than the daylight saves but I haven’t looked at the study in at least a decade. I’m a proponent of picking one a staying there, I don’t care which.
Sun: Ahh, I’m ready to go to bed, it’s been a long day.
Daylight Savings Time: Stay up another hour because we base our schedules around businesses. Fuck your sleep cycle!
This fall has been the first year in my life where I feel used to the changes in the diurnal cycle, I’m 34 and live in (and always lived in) Sweden. Every year and seasonal change until this fall has always been “damn, it gets light/dark so early/late now, crazy how you never get used to this”, but now it’s like my body has finally been prepared for it, which has and continues to be weird in its own way.
Deleted
Ive been struggling getting good sleep bc i had to wake up in the dark the last month, finally felt ok yesterday with the time switch. DST is a nightmare of sleep deprivation.
Deleted
What ever time is fine, we just have to stop switching.
Deleted
I work second shift… you’re all crazy.
where do you live where the sun goes down at 4? its always ~6:45-7 at the earliest where I live iirc
Sunset is at 4:47PM in Seattle, Washington tonight.
Yeah and y’all aren’t even that far north. Ours is far closer to 4:15 PM than 4:30 PM at this point and in December it gets to something absurd like 4:23 PM. Of course, people further North will laugh at this and say “sunset was 2 months ago” at that point.
woah, that’s crazy. Thanks for the info
This is a good picture showing how different places experience different sunrise/sunset times.
Most just think that it has to do with being north or south but it also has to do with left or right depending on the location in the certain time zone.
Somewhere north of south of the tropics.
1705 here… I hate ST.
Everyone here is having the same conversations that everyone always has, twice a year, since the start of changing the clocks.
These same exact conversations will be had again in six months and everyone will act like it’s the first time. Again. And again. And agian
yeah, just like at Christmas, New Year’s Eve or your birthday
I’ve never heard of anyone trying to eliminate Christmas, New Years, or birthdays. So no, not like those at all.
