13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.

What the actual fuck?

          • Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            This country, possibly your grandfathers or great-grandfathers (and in many cases grandmothes), went to war against Nazis, as did most of the world. There were a few fringe sympathizers, but they weren’t representative of “the greatest generation.”

            This shit is a new Nazi wave, and it’s not a continuation of something. It’s a flare-up of an old ugly root. All over the world these shits are gaining ground. New media empowers them.

            • Kintarian@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              In 2016 they said it couldn’t happen here. They laughed at the idea of trump getting elected. They were shocked when he was elected and racism once again reared its ugly head. In Germany they said it couldn’t happen here and look what happened. Now we have Trump, the racists have come out of the woodwork, project 2025 was revealed and we’re very close to the end of America if we don’t do something.

            • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              2 months ago

              The idea that the world united against the horrible atrocities of the Nazis is post-war propaganda. Your average person didn’t know anything about what was going on until photos of the camps made their way home as we pushed into Germany itself. Most countries didn’t give a shit about the Nazis until they were on their doorstep. Most people said, “Hitler’s only saying that stuff to get elected. Once he’s in office, he’ll calm down, you’ll see.” And then they said, “Well, if we leave him alone, then he won’t bother us.”

              Many people across Europe and North America actually agreed with Hitler’s views about the Jews before “The Final Solution.” Antisemitism was common across Europe and North America, if not the globe. In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to America as the sisterland across the ocean that shares his values.

              The phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by the pro-isolationism political group the America First Committee, who formed in 1940 and dissolved after the attack on Pearl Harbor, who largely opposed support for the UK. And they had over 800,000 members from all different backgrounds (from Democrats and Republicans to communists and anti-communists) with major tones of antisemitism and pro-fascist support amongst its leaders and speakers. They dissolved 4 days after Pearl Harbor and joined the war effort, not to fight the Nazis but to protect the US.

              The Nazis were inspired by the treatment of Native Americans when they started their camps, and we had our own camps for Japanese Americans. We hated the Chinese when they came here, and we hated the Irish as well. Most ethnic groups coming to the US settled in communities of their own culture from their homeland. That’s why the culture is so varied here, even across a single state. To quote somebody else, “Racism is as American as apple pie, and some people will see hatred of the first as hatred of the second.”

              I remember the days after 9/11, when attacks on black people doubled, attacks on Jews tripled, and Muslim parents were asking their kids if they wanted to change their name to something more American to avoid being bullied. That racism has always been present. It was just often couched in the lie of being edgy jokes or just that one racist uncle at the family party. The biggest differences today are that they’re no longer afraid to say it openly, and the number of young men caught up in the rhetoric of the online fascist pipeline that gives them a target to blame all the problems in their life on. The ironic racist jokes of their teen and childhood years stopped being ironic at some point and became their actual beliefs.

            • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              The idea that Nazi sympathisers were a fringe group is an vast oversimplification of history. Yes, America chose to fight against the Nazis, but there were huge racist/eugenist movements at the time that included high-ranking politicians and military personnel. Look up the America First movement for just one example.

              I first learned about this from the podcast ULTRA. I kept having to check their sources and do further research, because what they said sounded so wild that I felt I should have already known it. Instead it’s just another example of people not wanting to teach their uncomfortable history like the Tulsa race massacre, Indian residential schools in the US and Canada, the Tuskegee syphilis study, etc, etc, etc.

              Also, I’d suggest you learn about the history of Nazi Germay. The Nazis weren’t this huge supermajority of the German population, they just had people in the right positions, took power by force, and the populace went along with it. It’s not hard to see parallels with a lot of events in US history where if things went just a bit different the USA could have become a racist, authoritarian state.

        • bobalot@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Nativism is unfortunately a consistent undercurrent.

          Look up the “Know Nothing” movement.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 months ago

      The funny thing, though, is that the people who supported slavery also generally supported immigration. And I don’t mean by importing slaves (that too, of course). They wanted immigrants because they wanted America to grow. Sure, they didn’t want black immigrants, but that’s a whole other thing. When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!” it was “Hey! Dirt cheap labor! And stay out of the buildings with the posted ‘no Chinese’ signs or else.”

      So even those people, awful as they were, wouldn’t agree.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        When Chinese immigrants started pouring into California during the Gold Rush era, the response wasn’t, “immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country!”

        Chinese Exclusion Act says hi.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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          2 months ago

          Okay, fair point. But that wasn’t really a “poisoning the blood of our country” thing either. It was a “they tuk’r jerbs” situation.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Oh, no, there was definitely strong fears at the time that foreigners would ‘ruin’ America, and blood-related arguments were far more in vogue then than now. Even foreigners as white as the Irish and Germans.

          • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            It was a ‘catholics are evil and all follow the commands of the pope so we can’t let them in, they’ll sell us all out to the European powers’ thing.

            Also Irish are all drunks and Italians are all criminals, unlike the wonderful people who populated this country who were the European upper crust of course, and not religious nut jobs and people fleeing debt or other crimes.

            Don’t get me started on antisemitism: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-united-states-and-the-refugee-crisis-1938-41

            Roosevelt warned that even Jewish refugees could become a threat, aiding Nazi Germany in exchange for the lives of loved ones held hostage in Europe. The FBI warned Americans to be on guard. Neither the president nor the FBI were able to provide any specific examples of Jewish refugees committing acts of espionage or sabotage.

            • Carrolade@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Not just fleeing debt or crimes. People tend to be pretty well familiar with the British Empire using Australia as a penal colony, but that didn’t really get going until after the American Revolution. Before that they just used the 13 Colonies. Not quite as far to travel, bit cheaper.

              We’ve largely blotted out that particular perception, though, replacing it with pilgrims in funny hats fleeing religious persecution. Which, there were those too, of course, but there was also quite a lot of every other sort of person.

        • InverseParallax@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          For peace, he knew how monstrously cruel and evil the south was and that they would never tolerate black people as anything but chattel.

          Removing them made sense.

          I wish he wasn’t so kind and gentle, giving every slave owner to their slaves and walking away would have solved most of Americas problems to this day

    • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      People forget very quickly. Just look at what’s happening in Germany and Austria and the Netherlands and France and Italy. It’s like everyone’s ignoring history.

      • mectag@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yes, and people who forget history are destined to repeat it. It’s sad to hear some people in Germany wanting to “get over” our history…

      • mectag@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        You’re right. I just meant that with the background of our history, that it’s something that wasn’t just said, but actually happened, it feels more concerning.

  • Granbo's Holy Hotrod@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I was at a Ska show last night. They played a tRump ad about the border before the music. We almost left. Surreal, honestly, for the type of crowd I would expect.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      Music and politics are super weird. Paul Ryan, former Republican speaker of the house, was an RATM fan until Tom Morello told him to fuck off. Ann Coulter is a massive Deadhead. So is Tucker Carlson. There’s even a photo of Tucker hanging out with Jerry Garcia when he was in his 20s. The story is in an interview here if you can stomach it: https://www.maxraskin.com/interviews/interview-with-tucker-carlson

      And then there’s the musicians themselves- Johnny Ramone, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, all conservatives.

      • Granbo's Holy Hotrod@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yeah, I get it. I was really into Dead Kennedys and Jellos spoken words. The whole movement was anti-rayguns. It’s just super weird. I imagine Paul Ryan is so dumb he didn’t realize he was the forces in which we we were raging. Conservatives are not big on context. i.e. YMCA…

  • rayyy@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Which immigrants? They said that about Italians, then Irish. Seems the new guys on the block are always the bad guys until they aren’t.

  • JASN_DE@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think this is also a problem of perspective: the US Democrats are only “left” when seen from inside the US political spectrum. Seen from the outside they barely reach a center position and would be considered conservative-right in many other countries.

  • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Any issue any position, you can get 25% to agree. Another 5% is rounding error. Another 3% you get from trolls.

    Just like that, you can get 1/3 support for anything you want and clickbait your way to victory!

  • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Sooo…. A third of Americans have no problem admitting that the part of their brain that processes logic and reason is irreparably damaged.