More than a dozen former Ronald Reagan staff members have joined dozens of other Republican figures endorsing the Democratic nominee and vice-president, Kamala Harris, saying their support was “less about supporting the Democratic party and more about our resounding support for democracy”.
Who thinks this helps?
They’re trying to reach conservatives that don’t support Trump.
They’re alienating people who hate Reagan.
Are they? The campaign is not speaking in support of the Reagan administration. Harris is supported by the former administration over a corrupt and narcissistic megalomaniac.
Personally, I don’t see this as anything other than validation that Trump is that bad.
If you get endorsed by Hitler it reflects pretty badly on you.
Putin endorsed Biden, and now Harris. Do you honestly think that he wants Democrats in charge during his invasion of Ukraine? Politics is a game.
Right, his endorsement doesn’t help. That’s my point? Liberals shouldn’t be cheering because Reaganites endorsed Harris.
Who said Liberals were cheering? This is aimed at disenfranchised conservatives.
That’s a good question, but I think Putin’s being honest. Trump is more likely to try to negotiate a peace deal, but if that goes badly, he’s also much more likely to order some off-the-wall shit like giving Ukraine ICBMs and permission to use them. Remember this was the guy who was presented with a range of options to retaliate against Iranian sabre-rattling, and for seemingly no reason chose the most extreme, drone striking their top general! There’s lots of reason to not want Trump in charge.
What makes you think Trump would negotiate peace? He’s already said Israel should finish the job and stop recording their atrocities. He also repealed restrictions on Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory. Netanyahu was so grateful, he named a settlement after Trump in Golan Heights.Accidental and unrelated reply. My mistake.
I mean I am not saying that his endorsement is a good sign, however I see no reason not to trust his endorsement on face value. It seems to be more work and more conspericy boarding to say that this is some 7d chess to get trump back when there are reasons he would want a haris win
Are you aware that the Republicans in Congress refused to vote in favor of Ukraine aid? Democrats had to add Israel to the bill to get them to agree.
Putin wants Trump. It’s not a question which party is on his side.
I read it as the neoliberal warhawks are enthusiastic about a more level-headed maintainer of Empire who has promised the most lethal military in the world and to always support Israel.
Believe it or not, the President does more than determine support for Israel.
Yep, but the part that specifically draws the Reaganite fascists to Kamala is her promise to maintain the most lethal military in the world. Forever wars and endless profits for the MIC, endless support for Imperialism.
Having read about Hitler’s meeting with the military heads that line was bonechilling when she said it
And Trump has already proven to support Israel’s eradication of Palestinians and expansion into Gaza and the West Bank. Israel is not the point of comparison between them, although Trump is worse for Palestinians.
More money in the hands of the lower and middle classes stimulates the economy and drives stock prices. The middle class is considered the most wasteful class. That consumption drives consumerism, which increases stock value.
over a corrupt and narcissistic megalomaniac.
boy I hate to tell you this, but you’re not escaping that by voting for the democrats. the establishment parties are personifications of all of the worst vices and cruelties of the imperialist capitalist class of war mongers, racketeers, and liars which keep the globe under their boot with 800+ bipartisan military bases and CIA blacksite torture camps, and bipartisan Hunger Plans and bipartisan competing to see who can do more genocide faster.
Biden’s such a corrupt narcissistic megalomaniac he wouldn’t even step down while his brain was visibly leaking from his ears his own party including the speaker of the house (also being one of the most corrupt, narcissistic megalomaniacs in congress) was demanding he do so. He only did when the billionaire imperialists that finance the democrats (and who they work for, who both parties work for) pulled their funding.
The people who are saying this is a deal breaker weren’t going to vote for Harris anyway.
Trump is a threat to democracy, stands in direct opposition to the rule of law, embraces authoritarianism, undermines national security, alienates allies while emboldening enemies and rivals, enables nutcases and violent extremists, has called for the constitution to be thrown out, has stated he intends to use the government to persecute his political rivals, has declared that members of his own administration should be executed for being more loyal to the country than to him, and managed to get the Supreme Court to declare the president to be above the law. And that’s barely scratching the surface.
Even for conservatives, that list sounds very bad. Bad enough to outweigh major policy disagreements. It really shouldn’t be that hard to understand why some of them might be willing to endorse the only viable alternative.
Trump is a threat to democracy
America doesn’t have democracy in the first place.
Bush/Cheney STOLE the 2000 election. That was the biggest threat to democracy in my lifetime and now the Dems are welcoming them into the fold.
The Harris campaign has not extended an invitation to the Bush administration to come back and take over the White House if she wins. Nor is there some great wave of enthusiasm on the right for Harris, it’s just them endorsing the only viable alternative to Trump.
And if Bush v Gore was the biggest threat to democracy in your lifetime, you must have been dead for the last four years. Florida in 2000 was a clusterfuck whose outcome was always going to be determined by how the votes were counted because the margin between the candidates was less then the number of disputed ballots. But after it was over, the country went back to business as usual.
Trump spread lies about the election being stolen, plotted a blatant coup attempt, incited a riot that attempted to overthrow the election by force, and after failing to hold onto power. But unlike in 2000, this didn’t stop with one election, Trump and pals have continued to push conspiracy theories and coordinate at the local level to disrupt the entire democratic process. You’ve got armed nut jobs threatening poll workers, and local election rules being written specifically to maximize the disruption they can cause to elections. It’s now the norm for Trump supporters to see elections as inherently invalid if their side loses, with a significant number of those people being willing to support illegal or violent actions if it will give them the win they want. Even if Trump loses, the damage he’s inflicted to American democracy will likely last for decades.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
If the law had been followed Florida in 2000 would’ve done to gore.
Things went back to “business as usual” because the people who stole the election WON and successfully got control of the country, and what they did with that power was start 2 wars and murder a million+ people in the middle east and legitimize torture. That is worse than anything trump has done.
The damage that reagan/bush/cheney did to this country and to the world is incalculable. The dems disagree with me on this and that’s why I’m not a dem and I can’t support the dems
I mean odd that you KNOW none of these people where going to vote for Harris but these endorsments will get people to vote for Harris from the trump camp. I mean I would argue that there are people who remember past political actions and do not want to suport someone also suported by ghools, and this was either the last straw, or enough that they felt there was some alterer motive here.
Second, have you seen any trump suporter, or someone thinking about suporting trump they are unlikely to be pulled away.
third, threat to democracy? I mean I hate to break it to you but at best the US is an Oligopoly, and even then I would argue the dems are just a few steps behind. As for the the SCOTUS, what is stopping biden from using the above the law power… or Haris, why is this only a concern when trump might use it
fourth, you have to relise that DICK CHENEY endorsing your canidate is not going to be a good look, especialy reveling in it. the better political move would be to use his endorsement to open up a conversation about all the evil he did, and the farther promotion of the Unitary Executive (Really started by Reagon and his staffers… who also endorsed harris) leading us into the mess we are in today, and to shove that endorsement where the sun dont shine
I mean… yes… there are quite a few reasons I would not feel good voting for harris but there are 3 reasons I cannot in good contious vote for her, the first is the endorsments from Bush and Cheney, the second is this Reagon Endorsement, the third is she has publicly talked about class colaberation.
What are they going to do about it?
Please say campaign for electoral reform in their respective states.
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why though? there is a large untapped market to the left of the Democrats, that they constantly ignore instead focusing on trying to just BE the republicans and take the fictional moderate.
In reality here everyone in that space has decided, and is not going to be swayed a large majority of them are with trump, They should move back to ATLEAST new deal politics but expand it to all not just white americans, that will both re-expand there voting window and allow for a diferentiated base
because their interests don’t allow it. Their donors and the people they work for, recruit from, and get hired by after leaving office, are all the billionaire imperialists that benefit from exactly what the democrats are doing and have been. It’s in the base structure of the democrat party. A lot of times these capitalists donate to the democrats, then vote republican. Both parties work for the same class of capitalist imperialists in whose interest they are so entrenched, they literally can’t do anything else but fly to the right and become more and more indistinguishable from each other as they both compete for who can be better at committing genocide and who can be more fascist on immigration and the border concentration camps and also militarily and operationally abroad
The only way to break the duopoly is to throw weight behind a 3rd party (the further left the better, PSL or greens if you’re a liberal or your state is strong for it and you like that idea), which would starve the democrats of the margin they need to ever get power, and force a reorientation where the ruling class would have to float a reformist “labor” party to keep people from further radicalizing and flooding to the socialists away from the open-fanged republicans, who would remain as the only real political force when the mouth-closed-smiling but just-as-fanged democrats, entrenched in their position, can no longer cruise-control on “not being the republicans.” Which they already are in most ways, and in the ways they wear a mask of not being they’re totally feckless and actively capitulate in order to drum up more fear about the republicans to scare people into voting for them without doing anything to earn those votes (Obama had both houses of congress. He could have codified abortion rights and LGBTQ civil rights protections into law then and there. He didn’t. He also gave away a supreme court seat. And Biden has not only not forcefully pushed to expand and pack the courts, but has actively denounced the idea as “politicizing the courts” as if that ship isn’t already past the horizon. And has done fuck-all to stop the book-burnings, anti-LGBTQ laws, criminalizations of abortion, etc that are currently happening under a democrat president. They don’t care about any of us and never will, and it will continue to get worse under the duopoly).
The ruling class floating this “labor” party would itself cause the democrat party to split in half, with half hedging their bets and pouring into the ‘labor’ party and the farthest-right establishment remnants stopping pretending they’re anything else and joining the republicans. Which would then “democrat-ize” the “labor” party and alienate their left wing who were trying to escape those same people and interests into joining with the socialists. This is why I say throw weight behind a socialist 3rd party. Because then you actually have a growing counterweight pushing forward against this rupturing contradiction and highlighting how badly these people play politics, as the establishment and their bourgeois politicians are scrambling in retreat to reorient and reconstitute politically, having obviously grown so entrenched and corrupt and complacent they’ve forgotten how to play politics.
I would like to add that the Democrat party stance on gun control only hurts minorities and LGBT from defending themselves, as rich white liberals are sheltered from any problems the actual working class face.
they love to fear-monger about Project 2025 (Which is a real threat) while disarming the people who need firearms the most. “Trust the police, you do not need weapons of war” while they give speeches with armed security details nearby at all times. Both parties do not want an armed working class
Taking one vote from another candidate is worth two votes from someone who is not voting, or who is voting for a non-viable third party.
I know plenty of people who wanted to vote for Kennedy but will probably vote for Trump now that he’s out. This group is likely to listen to former Reagan staffers and republican presidents that they liked.
except the slice of the pie being argued over is so small now, you have to get the group of people who vote republican, but are willing to conseve of voting for the democrat, and then pull them off …
the math does not add up when to the left of democrats there is a large untapped market, you can see some of this by the lesser evilism argumentation, that there are people once agian near the drop off point of being able to approve of the democratic canidate. Even one step to the left would open up a large amount of voters back up, aswell as father sure up and engage the base, allowing for a more energetic and larger voter turnout.
also agian… the staffers and cheney should be enough given no denouncement or rejection of the endorsement to get anyone who was alive during those times who was opposed to them to keep from supporting harris, or atleast question the suport
The issue with appealing to the left is how fractured it is. Various factions will say whatever policies are presented are not left enough, and still refuse to vote. It’s hard to predict from the campaign’s perspective. Whereas they are unlikely to lose votes from obtaining the support of conservatives while possibly pulling votes from the other side.
I mean thats bullshit, because they are being told move left, and they are saying “well we dont know how left so we are going to move right vote for us your your terrible” that is not the way to handle this. You start to move left and you will gain more voters, and if you keep moving you will find the point that satifies most of them.
You are very likely to lose votes by doing this, see the decreased voter turn out, and the varuable voter turn out, you are losing people as they stop approving of you, and the likelyhood of you gaining new voters shrinks as you chace a narrower and narrower market
You are talking about long term consequences. Like capitalists who only look to the current quarter’s profits, politicians only look to the current election.
A smaller voter base is easier to appeal to. Both parties have relatively small voter bases and no competition because of the first past the post system and the electoral college.
It’s a numbers game. There are more active voters in the middle that would consider voting for Harris than on the far left.
the reason there are more active voters in the middle is the ones to the left see no gain in voting for either mainstreem, once you loose appeal you cannot draw people to vote, this is a fundimentaly flawed stratagy that disposesses the left
Surely if we go right one more time the mythical moderate republicans will reveal themselves and vote us. Just one more genocide, we got this
I do.
I know people who voted for Trump because they’ve always voted Republican. Republican is their team, so they voted Republican. They assume Trump, as a Republican, will continue with standard Republican policies (which is generally true). They don’t like him as a person but just don’t pay too much attention to it.
If you mostly ignore Trump and just think of him as a generic Republican it makes sense. I was planning on voting for Biden before he dropped out because Democratic policy is generally what I’m voting for. Biden dropping out and Harris stepping in doesn’t really change my voting plan. I’m still voting Democrat, I’m still voting Harris. Is Harris my favorite choice? No. Is the Democratic platform my perfect platform? No. But is it the best choice given the options? Absolutely. (And I don’t say that as horribly negative thing, there are A LOT of positives from Harris/Democrats and I’m glad/excited to vote for her.)
BUT we know Trump isn’t a generic Republican and people can’t ignore EVERYTHING he’s done. Jan 6 being a big one. If you’re a Republican voter now you’re stuck. You can’t vote for Trump. But you want to vote Republican.
You’re a generic Republican voter. You see Bush admins, Regan admins, Cheney all say they’re voting for Harris. You voted for them previously. That gives you the opening to vote for Harris. That helps.
You’re contradicting yourself.
You’re voting for Harris because you’ll vote for the Democratic candidate no matter what.
Republicans are going to vote for Trump because he’s on the Republican ticket, because they vote for the Republican no matter what.
But consider that there are independents who suspect there’s no difference between the two parties, and so they’re thinking about staying home or voting third party. Moves like this only convince them that there’s no reason to vote for Harris because all politicians are the same.
It’s not a contradiction, it’s a focus on Republicans.
I’m saying that endorsements like these convince Republican voters to vote for Harris.
For those who think there is no difference between the parties it may be less helpful. However if you’re truly standing in the middle, watching one side cross over to the other and only ever one side crossing over to the other, that should give you an idea of at least which way to start looking.
Of course I understand the cynic who just says everyone is just flip flopping around. For those folks endorsements aren’t the argument to make. Republicans voting for Democrats means they must be the same. In these cases it’s better to focus on policy or the individual. If I were an undecided voters who endorsed who wouldn’t sway me. Show me the policies, that’s what I’m looking for.
I’m saying that endorsements like these convince Republican voters to vote for Harris.
I don’t think they do. Think about yourself - could any endorsement convince you to vote for Trump? Because that’s the situation Republicans are in. They’re as committed to their nominde as you are to yours.
I’m telling you, with first hand experience, that they do.
And again, no, an endorsement alone isn’t ever going to convince me. There are multiple things that can convince people.
Some people are going to stick with what they’ve always stuck with.
Some people are going to focus on personality, “Have a beer with” .
Some are going to look at policy.
And of course no one is simple, so it’s usually a combination of the above.
But those Republicans who have always voted Republican, who finally see Trump for what he is, are looking for an alternative. They’re not risk takers. They aren’t just going to vote Harris if they’ve decided they can’t vote Trump. If however they see others from their crowd do it, they are likely to follow along.
Your anecdotal experience isn’t a strong data point. Just saying.
Who thinks this helps?
I think this helps. We’re talking opinion here. But to add data,
“I don’t know if we convince somebody to go Trump-to-Harris,” Duncan said. “I think we go from convincing somebody just sitting at home, not voting for anybody, to voting for Kamala Harris.”
That’s who I’m talking about. Those disillusioned with Trump. “I can’t vote Trump. I won’t vote for Biden or Harris.” But with enough time and endorsements, maybe they will.
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“See, the democrats will never fully move right.”
- Zeno of Elea, New York Times contributor
What am I to do instead? Vote for the evil?
This is akin to somebody living in 1930s Germany asking whether they should continue supporting the nazi party since they’re the only game in town.
Ok so that doesn’t answer my question
What am I supposed to do
Join an org like PSL.
What’s your opinion on FRSO vs PSL?
I’ve got a friend who joined PSL, and it sounds like they are a principled party. I’m less familiar with FRSO, but my understanding is that they have a Maoist lean.
Gotcha. They seem to only have a Maoist lean though, they describe themselves as Marxist-Leninist, but adopt concepts like the Mass Line. Plus, they use Linux apparently, which is neat
Watch a video on First Past the Post voting and demand your local and state representatives go on record their stance on electoral reform.
Those who oppose democracy must be ran against. Primary/general election whatever.
Probably to late to get electoral reform without a general strike at this stage, but we can start working on getting more people involved in the political process next election.
Towards being free to vote for who best represents us, safe in the knowledge that our vote will still be counted against those we dont want in office.
Democrats believe in democracy right? Let’s find out together.
In a letter…former Reagan aides and appointees…said they believed that, if alive today, Reagan would have supported Harris.
Reagan was a fascist ghoul. Cheney is a fascist ghoul.
If you think the trump admin was worse than the reagan or bush admins I’m sorry but you lost me. The dems clearly have no place for anti-war leftists theyd rather court bloodthirsty right wing monsters.
Their stratagy has always been scream about being the only game intown that is not farther right then them … at some point that has to break down
Blue conservatives.
People are imagining this like (if you’d forgive the analogy) Dragon Ball Z, where Vegeta is the big villain and we all need to rally around defeating him, but then an even bigger and more evil villain appears, Frieza, so now we team up with the still-evil Vegeta because he’s more good than Frieza.
That’s not what this is. This is Reaganites tipping their hand that they and the democrats are fundamentally on the same team, they are all part of the neoliberal establishment, and Trump, in his instability, is rocking the boat.
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
Democrats are the new Republicans.
I don’t disagree, but what do we call the Republicans? thinking_face_emoji
freaks
fascists. they are fascists. and democrats will be soon, if they arent already.
ratchet effect in practice.
The pendulum seems to only swing to the right.
because the right is on the side of the rich, and they sponsor them so they win
I sure hope they don’t go that way!
I’m amazed that people are offended when someone they dislike chooses to vote against Trump. I understand the concerns about a “uni party”, the military industrial complex, Israel, etc., but can we please agree that Trump needs to stay out of the White House?
Think of it as a Venn diagram. It’s OK to agree that Trump is bad.
These Republicans are not known for caring about Democracy.
I’m sure that some (many?) Republican politicians do not seek democracy.
We can see how this is bad right. This is just like proof that the Dems today are what RONALD REAGAN was? Like … this is a thing we can all see, and by Harris not publicly donouncing these endorsements along with Cheney’s there is a problem… like an obviousl problem? we all see this right?
Dems in 1990 were what Reagan was.
Thank you for making my point better for me.
Cheney and bush and reagan’s helpers and … actually ALL of these scoundrels, curmudgeons and assholes - their endorsement of Mrs. Harris after the crimes they pulled and the mayhem they put in motion - fuck them and their endorsements. It’s like having john wayne gacy supporting democrats - who wants or cares what that loathsome cretin chimes in about?
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This post is on lemmy.ml
Unless you’re posting radical left propaganda (actual radical, not what the Republicans say is radical) you’ll be downvoted to hell and never get any actual conversation or discussion out of it. Trying to have an actual discussion here is a waste of time and effort that would be more effectively used elsewhere.
Where is a better place to discuss? Certainly not Lemmy.world, which has a right-wing bias. I’ve been better able to have discussions on Lemmy.ml than Lemmy.world, personally.
Solid point!
