The bodies of 109 Palestinians including 23 children and 11 women were taken to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, and spokesperson Khalil Degran told the Associated Press that more than 100 wounded also arrived to the hospital. In addition, he said the rest of the 210 Palestinians killed were taken to Al-Awda Hospital after the spokesman said he spoke to the director there. But the numbers at that hospital could not be confirmed by the AP.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to continue the war until all hostages are freed, but Bassem Naim, a senior Hamas official now based in Lebanon, struck a drastically different tone.
“The horrific massacre committed today by Netanyahu and his fascist government against the Palestinian people in Gaza, which led to slaughter of 210 and more than 400 wounded so far — under the pretext of liberating those detained by the resistance — confirms what the resistance has said repeatedly: that Netanyahu doesn’t plan to reach an agreement to stop the war and free the captured Israelis peacefully,” Naim said, according to the Associated Press.
It’s really hard to take either of them seriously because both have been known to lie through their teeth and blatantly violated the rules of war.
It’s almost certain that the truth of what happened will never be known for certain, because basically none of the parties to this conflict have any credibility whatsoever.
Well we could have independent journalists but Israel won’t allow any in and shoots them often.
Correct, and that’s very much part of the problem. We have very unreliable information about the state of the war. They stop journalists to prevent information from getting out, and they succeeded.
Historically the figures released by the Palestinian health system have been acknowledged as pretty accurate. From the Telegraph : “In previous rounds of fighting in the Strip, the total number of deaths reported by the Gazan authorities have been found to be broadly accurate, not differing significantly from estimates produced by the UN or IDF. There have, however, always been disputes over the civilian/combatant split.”
I don’t doubt the accuracy of those figures but when it comes to things like Israel accusing Hamas of using human shields or setting up bases inside schools and Hamas saying “nuh uh”, without photo or video proof it’s hard to say either way.
I see your point. I tend to believe the Palestinian figures simply because they have a history of being reasonably accurate with casualty numbers and the IDF has a history of lying or at least playing down casualties
I don’t believe it is correct to call them “Palestinian” figures. There is no unified government in Palestine. There is a collection of multiple organisations exercising various amounts of authority over the Palestinian territories. The figures from the Gaza Health Ministry regarding civilian casualties are probably close to reality. But that doesn’t mean anything else is accurate. I give credibility to the Gaza Health Ministry on the topic of civilian death counts and other related humanitarian figures only.
Whichever noun you use to describe them is fine by me.
Bro you know why Israel is certain they’re doing it right? Because they took out from proto isrealis who stashed weapons and bases in or under holy sites, hospitals and schools.
Look into Operation Shark, the largest weapons bust being inside the great synagogue.
With one, you have to be cautious against infrequent exaggeration. With the other, you have to work your way through their constant denial. Both are not on point in scale of truth, and both can be used to completely subvert it for some intended purposes, but I think one is closer to the truth more frequently and by a lot than the other.
You can definitely pick the exaggerating side to start with, then work your way to the truth as much as you can from there and you’d be closer to it than starting with the other one, having a lower rate of going astray.
Amazing how reportedly 0 combatants were killed while this rescue happened.
“In international news, the equivalent of five Americans were killed in Afghanistan today”
– The Onion, 2008
It’s up to 274 dead now.
Holy shit… this place is lousy with pro-genocide hasbara.
And it seems the mods are perfectly fine with that… as usual.
Wait why is everyone being reasonable and not virtue signaling!? Did I die and leave this hellscape called Lemmy!?
Another win for lowering our carbon footprint
Well all those people definitely weren’t just civilians. Why would civilians be holding hostages? That means those people were combats. That’s a good thing then.
While not all of them were combatants, it only makes sense that Hamas would hold civilians in direct danger because they can’t win otherwise. IDF would wipe the floor with Hamas in direct conflict as Israel’s military power is far greater than Hamas, so Hamas is resorting to using civilians to prevent military action around their territory. Hamas then can use this against Israel in a lawfare sense when netanyahu attacks.
The issue ultimately is the intentional presence of civilians in these active military areas. Normally you wouldn’t bomb schools, but when Hamas sets up shop in these typically protected areas and starts launching missiles from them they start losing that protection. This is a win-win for Hamas, they can call Israel out for being reckless if they’re attacked and use down time to recuperate when Israel is restrained. Though, if you can’t win without subjecting your own people to your own deliberate war crimes, I think you have an obligation to surrender, you clearly don’t have your own people’s interest at heart.
So, sure one could say “what else is Hamas supposed to do? They’re outgunned, how else are they supposed to fight?” Answer is you don’t. Hamas shouldn’t have attacked in October and made the choice to subsequently hide behind civilians, they should surrender for the better of Palestinians.
Totally agree. Hamas sucks.
The children too?
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Considering that hummus was sitting on civilians for literal decades knowing it’ll tie Israel’s hands, it about time the message got sent that those tactics won’t fly. I’m glad at least some of the hostages made it home safely.
Go back to reddit, loser
Oh, how terrible. If only someone could, I don’t know, return the remaining hostages and end this. Or stop hiding among civilians. But no,…
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
PPS - “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
So next time there is a school shooting in america, and the shooter is hiding in the school, we can just bomb the school? I mean, the shooter could have just let the kids go or stop hiding among them. But no…
we can just bomb the school?
“Seems safer than going in, I guess”: Uvalde Police
That is an excellent analogy to illustrate why this isn’t a black-and-white situation. Well done, have an upvote!
You’re better than that. The two have nothing to do with each other.
That’s not a great analogy. A great analogy would be if he kidnapped a kid and was hiding in a house full of school-shooters and we would bomb that house to save the kid.
In which case: Yes, that’s a good Idea.
Netanyahu has said repeatedly since November that even if all hostages are released he will not stop the war. He turned down multiple ceasefire deals where all the hostages would be returned in exchange for aid. Your comment is simply incorrect.
Quite right! Hamas has pulled this shit far too often. For years they’ve attacked and then run and hide on the playground under women’s skirts. Rinse and repeat. Finally, Hamas has done this once too often. Israel has a big job hunting them down. This time, they get smacked down for good. So what’s not to like?
Hamas HAS to go, no two ways about it. The people of Gaza however can have a good discussion with Israel, and quite frankly the assistance of the world, when the war is over.
everyone gather around, [email protected] has arrived to give his very brave opinion on this massacre.
Oh how terrible if only someone could, I don’t know, return all the stolen land back to the Palestinians and end this…
Also it’s incredibly fucking naive that you think hamas freeing their hostages would end this instead of just giving israel more reason to bomb indiscriminately.
Dropped this in another thread, feel it’s applicable here.
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Hamas, an Islamist militant group and the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip, has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. According to the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.” Hamas has launched rockets, positioned military-related infrastructure-hubs and routes, and engaged the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from, or in proximity to, residential and commercial areas.
The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. If the IDF uses lethal force and causes an increase in civilian casualties, Hamas can utilise that as a lawfare tool: it can accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. Alternatively, if the IDF limits its use of military force in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less susceptible to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight. Moreover, despite the Israeli public’s high level of support for the Israeli political and military leadership during operations, civilian casualties are one of the friction points between Israeli left-wing and right-wing supporters, with the former questioning the outcomes of the operation.
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
Took a chance to be racist? Soo cool dude
“Popular culture Hummus is often seen as an unofficial “national dish” of Israel” - Wikipedia. The use of the term does not indicate nationality, but is meant to denigrate “Hamas”. And I would have got away with it, too, if it weren’t for you kids.
I am sorry, but calling a fucking terrorist organization names is racist now?
did you even listen when your parents told you the story about the boy who cried wolf?
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