please read some parenti
These westerners are social democrats which is not hard to understand, it’s wiki entry away.
It’s infuriating considering that it’s in the first goddamn sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.
If those libs could read they’d be very upset.
Words mean what they’re used to mean. Even the word “government” is wildly different between Europe and the US. We flip out over headlines like the government of Belgium has collapsed! and it’s only as much of a kerfuffle as the House trying to elect a Speaker.
If ever there was a real world example of Newspeak, it is how—thanks to class war and three red scares—the working class no longer even has a word for socialism. So now welfare capitalists like Bernie Sanders call themselves socialist despite never calling for the abolition of the private ownership of the means of production. It’s an amazing achievement of the capitalist class’ propaganda machine.
Man im pretty socialist who lives in ex east germany with my parents actually being parz of that time and i gotta tell you, with what i hear from them, it was horrible
ahhh yes… horrible as in:
- guaranteed housing and employment
- a non-discriminatory education system
- 0% unemployment
- low taxes
- an actually functional railway network
- a highly developed health care system that didn’t discriminate on basis of class
- guaranteed childcare
- womens rights way more advanced than in western germany at the time
- and most importantly no fascists in government
and no, i dont wanna say that there were no deficiencies, but it is rather obvious to me that it was quite the opposite of “horrible”!
also, what the hell do you mean by “pretty socialist”?
Ah yes the oh so good DDR with exciting features such as
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no freedom of movement
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constant shortage of any goods
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being a dictatorship
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(contrary to your first point) a housing shortage
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a culture so dictated by work that people had little to no free time
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political pressure
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control over the media
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the fucking stasi
And what i mean by pretty socialist is: everyone gets equal opportunities no matter what race, religion, gender, political views, etc. I want that chad - who just lost all his belongings - has the same chance to live a fulfilled live as elon musk has. I abhorr the fact that there are billionaire’s or even just millionaire’s while other people have to choose between paying rent or eating, and those people not even being in the worst situation compared to others.
I want almost, but not completely, communism
im sorry but you seem to have been fed quite a few western myths about the gdr. you seem to be arguing in good faith though, so lets examine:
no freedom of movement
this is just plain wrong. tourism was possible and encouraged not only within the country, but also to fellow socialist states like czechoslovakia and hungary, as well as, albeit to a lesser extent the soviet union. such trips were enjoyed by virtually the entire population thanks to guaranteed vacation time.
constant shortage of goods
shortages were only a thing in the immediate aftermath of ww2, as well as during the 1980s. in the second case they were caused by the economic liberalization enacted at the time due to western pressure, as well as the general deterioration of conditions in the eastern block at the time, which happened for similar reasons. during the late 60s and 70s per capita consumption was more or less equal to the west.
being a dictatorship
every state is necessarily a dictatorship, as this is important for class preservation. just as liberal states will mercilessly crush revolutionary elements, so must socialist societies crush counterrevolutionary ones. please read engels on authority to understand this point better. it is a short read and very eye opening.
a housing shortage
any source on this claim? the only periods i can imagine this to be the case is in the beginning due to war era destruction and the end due to crisis.
a culture so dictated by work that people had little to no free time
this is in fact a valid point. a solution for this could have been found within the socialist system though.
political pressure
already answered previously in the point about “dictatorship”.
control over the media
“All over the world, wherever there are capitalists, freedom of the press means freedom to buy up newspapers, to buy writers, to bribe, buy and fake “public opinion” for the benefit of the bourgeoisie.”
– v. i. lenin
the fucking stasi
the mfs was necessary due to the constant threat of counterrevolution going out from west germany. but its reach and capabilities are much overblown in western propaganda nowadays. in fact, the east spent much less on its intelligence apparatus than the frg while still managing to have a lower crime rate.
the goals you stated are extremely noble and i do in fact agree with every single one of them. you are being idealist though, which means that you absolutely need to read theory, especially lenin. a good reading list can be found here. if you would educate yourself properly you could become a great contribution to the communist movement.
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… would you be happy in prison, on the basis that there’s food and housing and you can take correspondence courses?
- and most importantly no fascists in government
Like it matters what color the Secret Police’s armbands are. But hey, your kids will be taken care of! Even if… something happens to you.
I just hate murderous regimes that murder millions of their own people
FTFY
Average imperial core Cold Warrior understander.
The US is included in my list too with the Native American genocide for what its worth lol. But people tend to forget that Soviet Russia and Communist China killed millions of their own people. They should not be praised or imitated. We should learn from the horrible mistakes of the past.
By millions murdered, you don’t mean people who died in the last famine in China after centuries of famines, and you don’t mean the last famine in the region that became the USSR after centuries of famines, right? Famines that happened during or soon after the bloody revolutions overthrowing the tsars and emperors, under which the previous famines occurred?
I mean in the boxer revolution and the millions that died in gulags in USSR because of famine and the government selecting people at random to starve to death in labor camps.
The boxer rebellion was 50 years before the Chinese Communist Revolution. The CIA’s own unclassified reports show what people in gulags were fed. Why would they choose people at random? That would be dumb. Nazis, kulaks, other prisoners of the revolutionary war, and common criminals were in gulags.
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Bruh, they literally picked people from bread lines and threw them into the gulag.
[citation needed]
Do you even think critically about the cold war propaganda we were fed? Why would you pick people out of bread lines and put them into gulags to feed them there? That would mean you’d have to build more gulags and get people to staff them. Why would you do that unless you’re a cartoon villain? It makes no sense.Not to mention the majority of clergy for just being christian clergy.
I have no great love for clergy, especially when they side with tsars against a worker revolution.
I kinda suspect ты из Калининграда
виновен
Is it so much to ask that workers councils be in charge instead of some revolutionary
The history of socialist movements shows that it is. Rosa Luxemburg was right over a hundred years ago.
The healthcare system is just fraud anyway just finish the job and make it for everyone not the ultra rich.
“Those countries reflect poorly on socialism.”
“How dare you, they’re not really socialist.”
There’s no contradiction there.
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yeah, lets just all believe in absolutely nothing and let the status quo continue. i hope you are happy being exploited by capitalists day in day out.
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