A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

  • Altofaltception@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    If you consider that Hamas only exists to fight against Israeli oppression over an ineffective PA, it makes sense that if the oppression ends, Hamas becomes irrelevant.

    • Xhieron@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      That’s a chicken and egg problem, though, isn’t it: Netanyahu’s government wants Hamas because the conflict keeps Bibi out of prison, and Hamas wants to remain relevant. All the same, the Israeli and Palestinian people are the ones who suffer due to both regimes being in power, and Hamas doesn’t shed its guilt just because Israel doesn’t want a reasonable Palestinian government. Neither side wants to blink because they have multi-generational hatred for the other side, and that means popular support for further violence probably isn’t going anywhere. You back down! No, you back down!

      The result is that neither side is going to take real steps to deescalate, because both sides benefit from the conflict. That the Palestinians are suffering more, by orders of magnitude, doesn’t make either side’s position any less entrenched: Bibi wants to stay in power (and free), and Hamas wants to remain relevant and in power, and they’re more justified now than ever. Both regimes need to be replaced.

    • IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      It’s important to note that for most of its existence, “fighting against Israeli oppression” explicitly meant Israel no longer existing. This is the first time I can remember them even implying that they would accept a two state solution.

      • jpreston2005@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        they accepted a two-state solution previously, the isreali PM that was negotiating with them at the time was assassinated.

        • gimpchrist @lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli law student who didn’t believe in the peace talks. Hamas didn’t even kill him, Israel did it. No fucking surprise there.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          they accepted a two-state solution previously, the isreali PM that was negotiating with them at the time was assassinated.

          That was Fatah, not Hamas. Hamas was irrelevant back in the 90s and didn’t rise to prominence until the mid-2000s.

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          Better check that history video again. It wasn’t Hamas at that table

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948

        After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.

        Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

        History of peace process - The Intercept

        The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

        • Avi Shlaim

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          They wanted a unified Arab state, and they wanted the non-Arab immigrants out

          And failing that, they tried to put a genocide on them

          Small details, I know

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            They wanted a unified Arab state, and they wanted the non-Arab immigrants out

            It’s true they wanted it to be an Arab state, since the vast majority were Arab. It’s not that they wanted ‘non-arab immigrants’ out, it’s that Zionist Settler Colonialism was quite different from normal immigration. Instead of integration, the early land purchases led to the expulsion of tens of thousands of Palestinians in the early 1900’s. Many Palestinians opposed the Zionist Land Purchases and Immigration because of fears they would be forced out of their homes and communities, not because they were Jewish.

            The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

            Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.

            And failing that, they tried to put a genocide on them

            Are you talking about the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians? Because that was planned and carried out. There was nothing remotely equivalent from Palestinians or the Arab Liberation Army.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              It’s true they wanted it to be an Arab state, since the vast majority were Arab

              If you have sympathy for that argument, what’s the difference with jewish people who want the same? Both wanted to be the first class citizens in their country.

              the early land purchases led to the expulsion of tens of thousands of Palestinians in the early 1900’s

              That’s true, but it’s not different from renters who are forced out after their landlord sells the property. It’s not a ‘nice’ part of humanity, but it’s generally accepted as ‘fair’. Of course it’s true that most zionist immigrants had no plans to integrate with non-jews. Partly because of their own religious backwardness, partly because they moved there specifically to escape religious oppression.

              There was nothing remotely equivalent from Palestinians or the Arab Liberation Army

              There certainly was: Nebi Musa riots; 1929 Palestine Riots; etc. certainly showed the intent of many Palestinian Arabs to put an ethnic cleansing on the jews.

              You’re quite wrong if you don’t think the ALA or others didn’t go in with the same intent. You should look up their logo or statements from their organizers prior to their attack. The only reason one side won is because the other side lost

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        They’ve publicly held this position for nearly 20 years now. When they publicly adopted it and got elected as the new Palestinian Authority because of it, Israel immediately declared war and prevented them taking power.

      • dariusj18@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Well, they did fuck around and find out. Now they are facing an existential threat of their own and suddenly reasonable?

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Hamas has lied about peace and democracy in the past. They became the state of Palestine by winning an election in which they promised to stop attacks on civilians and be democratic, then refusing to hold an election for 2 decades.

      Israel is a genocidal regime and needs to be stopped. But that doesn’t make Hamas the good guys. A long-term solution can’t include the current governments of either Israel or Palestine.

      • Altofaltception@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Hamas won an election in 2007, which no other country accepted the results of. Israel responded with a blockade. Not saying they’re the good guys but it’s not like it’s a level playing field.

        • Godric@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          What! They “won” an election that nobody outside HAMAS found legitimate??? And then the country they promise to exterminate reacted? No way!?!?!?!?

        • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Yes also don’t forget that Fatah immediately led a coup against them, with public support and arms from Israel and support from US.

          • Altofaltception@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I thought we don’t accept the results of the election?

            Immediately after the election, Fatah, with US and Israeli support dismissed the Hamas government, which Hamas obviously disagreed with.

            At this point there’s a stalemate where we (the West) and Fatah don’t recognize the Hamas government and Hamas can’t call an election because they have not officially governed.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              Nothing is stopping them from holding another election. There’s clearly a desire for one, since Hamas has violently quelled dissent in the past.

              The fact of the matter is that Hamas is looking out for Hamas, and that they haven’t held elections in 14 years heavily underscores that.

              To be absolutely clear, Israel is still the greater evil here. But that doesn’t mean that Hamas isn’t an authoritarian dictatorship either.

    • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’

      -Article 7 of Hamas’ founding charter

      They were founded to kill Jews and push them out of Palestine. They’re not righteous freedom fighters.

      “Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one.”

      -prayer of Sheik Ahmad Bahr

      They’re just as genocidal as Israel has been as of late, they just lack the same capability Israel does.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

        Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

        The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990’s, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Revised charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.

        The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.

        History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012

        No I don’t support Hamas as a ruling party, I want Palestinians to be able to have free fair elections.

    • Godric@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      HAMAS exists to exterminate Isreal and its inhabitants. Their offer is ‘free Palestine, let us be the dominant political party, and let us form and official national army, then we chill for 5 years! Don’t worry what we might do after that!’

      Hamas isn’t going to just die out if they win. Isreal would be suicidal if they agreed to the ‘deal’.

      • Altofaltception@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Hamas ran in the 2006 election under a completely different name, in an effort to demonstrate that they can in fact separate themselves from their militant faction.

        Remember, Israel also had its origins in armed struggle (against the British).

        Edit: although this is probably Israeli projection, given that the armed factions did become the Israeli military. And we all know what they’re up to.