Mine will likely never be eliminated unless it all goes away because I make too much, and that’s totally fine by me. I want as many people to get relief as possible! Public colleges and universities should be free, and student debt should not be a thing. At least not the way it is now.
I feel happy when someone in this position can say this instead of the ol’ “I did it so you should suffer too” to type logic haha
You deserve relief too. Maybe not all of it but just because you’re one of the lucky few that won the job lottery. Still, everyone deserves an education, especially those who will use it to their full advantage.
Another guy who won the job lottery here. I agree that in principle we deserve relief, but we should be at the absolute back of the line. We may deserve it, but we don’t need it. A lot of people need it. Those tax dollars are better spent on the less fortunate.
I mean, with that relief he could buy more stuff and help keep employment high, or invest his money in an ethical business to spur more job growth… which is more likely if that poster walks the talk. Regardless, college debt is just economic parasitism.
Like you will be paying it off forever? Or unlikely to be forgiven? Because those both suck but one is unacceptable
Good. Keep taking advantage of those loopholes.
I don’t know how many times exactly the Republicans have tried to repeal Obamacare but it’s at least 70, so yeah I have no problem with Biden hammering on this issue for as long as it takes to get it done.
They’ll complain about it until Obama becomes white in 2008. I’m cool with Biden continuing to hammer this issue.
I definitely sympathize with people in college debt, but this feels like just temporary wins and doesn’t address the real problems. This won’t solve the overpriced cost of education. Forgive debt now, a new crop of students will just go into debt next, right?
We need universities to be completely free, universal single payer health care, drastically cheaper housing to rent and own, etc.
When someone is having a heart attack you don’t give them a lecture on the importance of diet and exercise.
There is a problem now, solve it. Fix the root cause next.
Fact.
Also called kicking the can down the road.
Also called solving a problem instead of being a lazy self-entitled fuck
Why do you want free universities for degrees that actually give a net benefit?
And the reason housing is so expensive is directly due to government intervention in housing.
because I’m not a piece of shit and want to see my fellow Americans do better. a rising tide lifts all boats.
I am also a piece of shit who thinks good things are good even if someone else gets a bit more good than I get.
How does useless degrees lift all boats?
Wow TIL all degrees are useless.
What’d you get your degree in? Maybe you got a useless one.
Where did I say all degrees are useless? I got my degrees in engineering and science.
Dude you must think they get their degrees in feminist dance or some boogeyman degree. News flash you want some people to get good jobs with that “useless” feminist dance degree. Because if not, they’re going to crowd into degrees like engineering and greater numbers of engineering grads creates greater competition for engineering jobs… which drives down the pay that most engineers get, plus it reduces the odds of actually getting a starter engineering job. Supply & demand.
Signed, 100% NOT a feminist.
The market pretty much tells us what are useful and useless degrees. The issue with your theory is that people do crowd into engineering and then the joke is after they fail they do business.
And the reason housing is so expensive is directly due to government intervention in housing.
Fuck off you conservative dipshit, try your incredibly wrong talking points somewhere people aren’t gonna see right through it
While it is certainly not the only reason, government intervention via zoning laws is definitely a factor in the house crisis. If mixed use zoning was more universally a thing, then that would be the government not intervening in the housing market.
And that’s absolutely not what they mean
It’s even more so due to the ultra-low interest rates that were the “temporary” “solution” to the post 2008 crash recession (only they weren’t all that temporary and didn’t really solve the problem, more pushed it along).
There is a lot of info out there about how such monetary policy pushed money up the yield-scale out of Treasuries and Bonds and into things like Stocks and Realestate.
Another point is the wealth concentration we’re seeing: as a bigger and bigger fraction of GDP ends up in the hands of the already very wealthy the fraction of GDP that’s seeking investment opportunities (rather than being spent: poorer people spend all or most of their income, whilst rich people spend but a tiny fraction and the rest they invest) exploded and all that has to go somewhere and Realestate is perceived as safe (especially if governments will do all they can to not let prices fall) and has a lot more yield than treasuries.
This shit goes all the way back to Obama, and was just as much pushed by Republicans as by Democracts.
Oh please. None of that even PALES in comparison to the outright supply crunch being caused by housing investors. It doesn’t even compare to the damage being done by the rampant construction of expensive luxury/multifamily homes.
It explains why there are so many house investors now when there were way less about a decade or so ago.
It also explains the record-setting stockmarket valuations even though most people feel things have gone backwards.
Yup! Housing investors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zoning laws or all the other narratives about government interference.
Why do you want free universities for degrees that actually give a net benefit?
It is in your sentence. I want things that offer a net benefit. That’s why I like fire departments for example. We all benefit from not having uncontrolled fire about.
That’s 100 percent, certified bullshit.
Government could fix housing SUPER fast. Tax rental payments on single-family homes at 100% to make SFR build-to-rent impossible.
Sorry dude, but that is not how that works.
I work in municipal development.
100% of new single-family developments approaching the city over the last 2 years have been for build-to-rent exclusively. The existing SFR homes are being bought up at massively inflated prices to convert them into rentals.
The only reliable way to buy a home for your family to live in within 50 miles of the city is to buy empty land and have a custom million+ dollar house built, because the existing inventory is being grabbed up by rental investors and new inventory isn’t even being made available for sale.
If that is true then your area is very different than the rest of everywhere, because SFH are terrible investments. And taxing them is just going to make housing more expensive and fix nothing.
You could really use some of that free education because this take is absolutely moronic
Wow, that was such a clever statement, you must have so many degrees!
Care to explain the logic behind the housing comment?
Sure, in short housing is too difficult and too expensive to build to keep up with demand. All this is due to government requirements on housing which adds over $100k on average per single family house, as well as it just being a general headeache. And this doesnt even get into the currency manipulation issue.
What requirements though?
And the government doesn’t control monetary policy, so can you expand on that too?
There are probably 1000 different requirements for each small town and then add the state and national ones to that. The requirements will be things like getting an engineering report if you remove more than 10 yards of dirt, or add a roof element that makes the house look good.
The government does control the supply of money via the Federal Reserve. If you are interested I can tell you how it directly makes the rich richer and takes the wealth of the middle class and poor.
The fed is independent. If you’d like, I can give you a primer on how that works
Let me get this straight, the US controls and funds all kinds of governments around the world but they wouldnt control the fed? “But its a private company!!!” Sure it is, its totally not completely controlled by the government…
waaaaaaa regulation makes stuff more expensive to do, get rid of it so we can make money at the expense of the ppooooooooorrrrrrssss
Classic conservative
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Instead of reinforcing bloated college tuition, why not say fuck it and put a ceiling on all tuition?
JUST DO IT!
DON’T LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS!
DO IT!
Try harder if you want to win a second term. Your liberal base doesn’t show up and you lose.
NYTimes is walled off. Can’t access. Update: Someone posted the article in the comments below. Thanks!
I will maybe purchase a home before I’m dead. I don’t have a useless degree. In fact, it’s an in-demand field and the salary was considered respectable when I began. Cost of living increases have eaten away at that. But my other choice was to continue to be an assistant at poverty wage. So when the higher salaries and specialties are gatekept by a huge monetary sum you either get a bunch of people with some debt or only the privileged may access knowledge and a brighter future. We have to decide as a society which one we want and stop loathing our neighbors for the system they didn’t create.
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Please Mr.President get this passed before the orange man comes back
Trying is not enough sir
Pretty much all he can do when you have a far right court and congress
He’s doing more than he really can, but I also feel this is his way of communicating that he is in fact trying. SCOTUS and the Department of Education has both said it is not within his power, and whether or not I agree, the SCOTUS will likely continue to prevent him from pushing this through.
Realistically our government should be doing much more in aiding people through higher education, but at this point it’s like threading a needle.
I am totally for free college. If we can’t agree on that, the price should at least be capped or seriously reduced. It seems kind of convienient that the topic is coming up again in an election year. The problem is that both parties are beholden to the military industrial complex. With military recruitment at an all time low, they can’t afford to just “give it away” (give it away, give it away, give it away now). The Rethuglicans will use their bullshit “bootstrap” argument, because they only give a shit about a problem when it affects them directly. The Demohypocrites will wring their hands and pretend to try to do something while ceding ground to Repubs so they can make a show of it. It’s the corporations that own both parties, and nothing is going to change until we kick these entrenched douchebags out on their asses.
Also, look how easy it is for Congress and POTUS to approve billions for war in Ukraine and billions in money and weapons to keep the genocide in Israel going (with all of the afforementioned hand-wringing, of course).
He’s also wiping out tens of thousands of women and children in Palestine.
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I am all for it. Just wish it didn’t take a genocide for his numbers to dip far enough to need the PR boost
He has been working on student loan forgiveness well before the Gaza conflict
Not to mention plan b is still in the works
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/30/biden-revive-student-debt-relief-00104482
Biden has been against it far longer than he’s been for it. I’m voting for him, but let’s not pretend he’s a good guy here. He had his opportunities to do something and he refused, despite his fellow Democrats begging him to act. He refused to extend the time for the payback; him and no one else.
He has never stated that he’s changed his position - he’s just thrown out soundbites like he’s done so far. No actual action has taken place other than what was already happening without him. He’s sped up some already existing processes. Whoopee.
He literally forgave $146k from my wife’s student loans, after predatory student loan advisors had her refinance her loans years ago, claiming she would qualify for 20 year forgiveness, but in reality didn’t qualify. She just realized about 4-5years ago and got back on the right track, but it was going to be 20 years from then.
You hand wave the effect that his express actions have had on real, hard working and struggling citizens. I’m here to tell you that they have had a major affect on our lives, and have honored the spirit of the deal that she entered, and had been cheated out of. And there are many, many others.
And this is speaking as someone who was fortunate enough to have my parents pay for my education in full. I have never been burdened by student debt, and I view it is an absolutely wonderful and vital action to ensure that the US retains its status as one of the most highly educated work forces in the world.
I’m glad it worked out for you and your wife. There’s a lot of people who don’t have jobs deemed “righteous” enough to be worthy of “forgiveness” for the predatory costs of college, lending practices of the institutions, and restrictive legislation of the politicians that have created an indentured servitude for most of your fellow Americans.
Or those like me, who actively left one of the schools deemed predatory because I saw the writing on the wall.
Because I left before the place shut down (about a year before it did, woulda still been in school) I get nothing forgiven, I already applied and got denied.
I’m happy for those who got their loans forgiven, but I am incrddibly irate at how very specific it’s been and how directly that’s fucked me despite also being lied to and fucked around (for example I had to sign my onboarding documentation FIVE TIMES because of vague “oh you did this wrong do it again” and I’m 80% sure some numbers changed between the first and last one
She wasn’t in a “righteous” job, she was self employed and qualified for some reduced income based program. I can’t remember all of the details, but for many years she was paying around $1400/mo, and then went into some program to help reduce the payments after losing her condo in the recession.
The point I’m trying to make is that we need to support his efforts to absolve more people’s loans. He’s trying to do a lot more than he has already done, but he’s fighting the GOP and even some from his own party. The wins he has gotten have helped people like my wife and I substantially, and if he continues to get the publics support, that gives him leverage to keep chipping away and widening the scope to hopefully include people like you and your loved ones as well.
Aaaaaaaaaand where’s he gotten with it?
Assuming correctness: 136000000000/1750000000000*100 = ~7.77%. While this is not nothing, boy it just doesn’t sound like the student loan forgiveness he promised does it?
The “genocide” blame is bullshit, mostly from trolls and the deliberately uninformed. Biden has been all over Israel from the start to not react “over the top”.
This is obvious disinformation.
The fact that you put genocide in quotes says everything anyone needs to know about your non-existent morality.
Biden has definitely been all over israel, as in all over kissing their ass for his entire career.
Stupidest fucking thing I’ve read on lemmy.
But, that is to be expected from someone evil enough to put genocide in quotes.
Not really a great analogy though, is it, since Biden wasn’t the one who pulled the football up the first time. His administration has also been working constantly, using every way they can, to forgive as much student loan debt as possible. That’s after the SCOTUS ruling.
Say what you will about him, but Biden has shown that, at least on this issue, he’s doing everything in his power to get rid of as much as possible. And he’s already changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of borrowers… Again, after his plan got shot down.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they get this done in time for the election… They will try to get the timing right though so it motivates people to vote.
He did pull the football. He campaigned on $50k forgiveness and then negotiated down to $10k after he was elected.
No, he did what he said he would do, and the Supreme Court stopped it from going into effect. The conservative establishment sued the government to stop it from happening.
MOHELA, one of the apparent plaintiffs on the lawsuit, is on record prior to the court case saying that they had no interest in suing and that they don’t know why this lawsuit was being brought in their name. There was no standing whatsoever, the case shouldn’t even have been heard.
Regardless, no, Biden didn’t pull the football. In fact, his efforts to forgive tens of millions of dollars since the SCOTUS ruling, in addition to this article, indicate that he’s still planning on following through on that campaign promise.
I’m glad he didn’t just give up after he SCOTUS ruling. Every other President that’s been in office during my lifetime would 100% have given up after losing that case. Especially given that the benefits tend to skew younger, and a more cynical, real politik person would cut their losses, claim they tried, and move onto sometime that they think will net them more votes.
Let me break this down for the simple minded:
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Biden proposes $50k in student debt forgiveness.
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Republicans fight him to make it $0.
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Supreme Court sides with Republicans.
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They force Biden to make it $10k just so it will pass.
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“Biden pulled a Lucy on his voters!”
Yeah… I can’t tell the difference anymore between conservative idiots and actual real tankies. That’s how close many of their talking points have gotten… I guess if one thing has been consistent throughout modern history, it’s that political groups on the left will always sabotage their own success with infighting on petty minutiae and making perfect the enemy of good. Yes, I know the Democrats aren’t “on the left” etc. etc. etc… I’ve made my point. We’re always our own worst enemy.
That’s simply NOT true. When the Republicans are bulldozed out of the way, Democrats go full speed ahead. Look at California. Newsom has gone absolute gangbusters with the GOP helpless in his path. We’re a bullet train of progress here!
Note: So to briefly pause here: I’m not exactly sure what happened, but I may have gotten a little carried away with this comment, it just kind of wrote itself and I couldn’t stop. I’m not even sure how much it pertains to your comment lol sorry. It’s long, so I wouldn’t fault anyone for skipping the rest. That said, I do think it makes some important, albeit possibly already well known points.
What did I say that’s not true? There is a long and storied history of leftists failing to accomplish meaningful change on a large scale due to petty infighting (for example, New Jersey exists) and self-imposed purity tests…
My comment assumes that the one I’m replying to is sincere and arguing in good faith. This is the internet, so you never know. Either way, this comment isn’t just for him, it’s for anyone who may see this thread and are curious about whether or not Democrats are progressive or vice-versa. So who knows, maybe someone else will read this and learn something new lol you never know…
My initial thought was that you seem to be making the mistake of conflating “progressive” with “democrat”. Are there progressives that caucus with the Democratic party? Sure (though begrudgingly). And why do you think they do that, rather than starting a third party of their own? After all, these neo-libs are just as bad as conservatives in their minds. Why do you think that progressive politicians in the US choose to caucus with the 'dem like 98% of the time? And leftists just cannot help themselves. We have some compulsion to zero-in on that often arbitrary 2% difference, Ultimate gatekeeping. Rather than celebrating the 98% of views we agree on, it is decided that cooperation is impossible.
It wasn’t always just Bernie out there on a limb; Some of us are old enough to remember people like Dennis Kucinich (and his disproportionately hot and cool wife lol), Mike Gravel, and last, but absolutely not least: Howard Dean, a "progressive-adjacent Democrat who was set to potentially win the nomination. And I can hear it already/again: “he’s not a true progressive because xyz, so he doesn’t count as a one!”
In all seriousness I truly believe Howard Dean’s career was deliberately assassinated because at the time, he was running the DNC like a well-oiled machine— his ‘fifty-state strategy’ was showing very real results. The GOP saw a future where they’re fighting for their lives in just about every state, knowing full well that they have no actual policy to run on. Republicans were threatened by this already, and the thought of him becoming President absolutely terrified them. So they assassinated his career for the dumbest reason ever (with the media and center-left complicit, of course),
What we need are more progressive politicians who are willing to actively caucus with the Democratic party. Once you get a large enough contingent, they will begin having actual power in the party’s policies.
So to get to my original main point before this comment transformed into something entirely different:
Given we must accept reality as it is, and given that that the reality is that we only have two parties is this country, we really have no choice:
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a lukewarm neo-liberal party that has had no real choice but to follow the Overton Window (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) further and further right or face extinction and ultimately cede power to the other party. Have you see what the “opposition party” looks like in places like Russia, and or,
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literal racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, fascists (their dumbasses don’t need to know the definition of something to be it) who are working tirelessly to take away basic rights
I am aware of Israel/Palestine, and I am 100% against Netanyahu’s campaign of genocide. Which is why voting for Donald Trump, who wants to give Netanyahu carte blanche (literally told him to “get it done faster” in contrast to everyone else in the world telling him to chill the fuck out).
If you give a single shit about the plea of the Palestinian people, and haven’t just latched onto a cause for attention or whatever, then you would understand why you need to vote for Joe Biden.
The reality of political party dynamics is incredibly complex and nuanced. The Democratic party in particular is so diverse not just of ethnicity, but of beliefs, opinions, etc. I mean look at this, I think the data speaks for itself: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/09/u-s-congress-continues-to-grow-in-racial-ethnic-diversity/
Here is my main point (I think):
I must emphasize, THIS IS HOW THE SITUATION IS AT THIS MOMENT. That is, until young progressives recognize that perfect is the enemy of the good, and that they are able to collectively change the ethos and platform of the Democratic party. And that’s how you get a progressive party in a two party system. Problem is, young people don’t vote.
Again, apologies for the crazy long comment, this wasn’t planned. I hope at least someone reads it. Cheers!
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Regardless, no, Biden didn’t pull the football.
Yes he did.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-50000_n_602d49c6c5b67c32961aab8b
k
Not sure how the supreme Court is “negotiations” but sure
But he also was able to find other ways to forgive debt through other legal means
Here’s Biden pulling the football.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/539139-biden-balks-at-50k-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/
“I do think in this moment of economic pain and strain that we should be eliminating interest on the debts that are accumulated, No. 1. And No. 2, I’m prepared to write off the $10,000 debt, but not [$50,000],” Biden said, saying he doesn’t believe it can be done with presidential action.
Emphasis mine.
Yes. He negotiated down.
Assuming you actually believe what you’re saying here, then you’ve got a lot to learn about how the world works.
I know enough about how democracy works to know I’m not voting for the guy again. We’re not fucking around here. Make material compromises with leftists or progressives or lose to MAGA. Make a choice.
We’re not fucking around here.
Lol how old are you? This your first election? Maybe Democrats will make concessions to progressives when we (and young people in general) fucking show up to vote consistently. And not only in presidential races.
Until then, you’re naive if you think you can make ultimatums like that… It’s laughable.
What I was referring to about learning how the world works, was learning how things actually get done in reality, not in your books on poli sci theory.
First off, Biden isn’t a king. The president does not have carte blanche to just eliminate hundreds of billions of dollars in personal debt with the swipe of a pen. Frankly, I would not want that power vested in one person. If he were more authoritarian-inclined, he might try (though authoritarians seem to never use that power to help anyone buy themselves and their buddies), and there are several potential outcomes of that, and none of them end with him getting the thing he originally wanted… Nothing happens in this kind of system without compromise (which is why we see the Republicans’ obstructionism works), so yes, $50k becomes $10k.
There is also this thing called “political capital”… I’m not going to waste any more of my time when you probably won’t even read this far…
I know I’m voting for Biden to stop MAGA.
