Are they both objectively terrible?
I mean, trump seems obvious. Unstable wannabe tyrant/dictator from a party of evangelical theocrats, criminal, fraudster, blatant liar, thief, rapist, sycophant of dictators, insurrectionist, wife beater…and we haven’t even dug in to the party that supports this behavior along with their LGBTQ hate, restricting womens’ rights, voter fraud, election fraud, gun rights > your life, handing everything to the billionaires, environmental destruction of most every kind, and of course their NAZI underpinnings.
Joe is a career politician with all the baggage that goes with that, but he’s not actively and willfully sabotaging the country.
One has worked with Bernie Sanders and helped get some his goals achieved in policy and legislature.
The other hired his own children despite their inability to get security clearances, cheated on his wife while she was at home with their newborn, paid illegal hush money over that matter, stole classified documents and likely gave them to adversaries, likely compromised national security multiple times, sowed doubt in our elections with zero evidence to back it up, blew up the debt, fucked up the Supreme Court and has said he’d ignore the constitution, term limits all of that.
But both sides amirite?
The list is so long I’d forgotten about that stuff too.
Yea but don’t forget, since I’m not getting 100% of what I want, the way I want, achieved precisely when I want it… then they are both the same.
Maybe.
“I let my hatred willfully blind me to admitting trump is a sack of shit and I’d prefer a dictatorship to democracy if that pisses off the libs. Bonus: I get to be a bastard too because the libs will be shut up unless they want to go to a reeducation camp.”
More likely.
E: I re-read what you said and realized I didn’t get it right. Do Dems really think like that, or is it just general apathy of some Dems and the independent voters?
To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. “Can I interest you in the chicken?” she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it? To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.
David Sedaris
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I thought primaries were still happening? Not the general election.
If it wasn’t for his position regarding Israel and Palestine, I would have been pleasantly surprised by Biden overall. His administration seemed to be making a lot of good moves for a bunch of liberals.
Joe is a self-admitted Zionist. He’s also a U.S. President and unfortunately for the Palestinians, U.S. hegemony in the Middle East is entirely predicated on a stable U.S.-friendly Country (i.e Israel) in the region.
“If we didn’t have an Israel, we’d probably have to make one.” ~Joe Biden
It’s a shit-trap, for any POTUS regardless of their personal beliefs
Both are objectively terrible, the Democrats are tepid liberals that are trying to put band-aids on gaping holes in a sinking ship rather than solving the underlying issues.
The GOP is, of course, fascist, and thus far worse, but in the sinking ship that is America, continuing to sink without fixing the underlying issues is bad as well.
Actually fixing the problems is far greater than the DNC, which is far greater than the GOP.
Edit: no, I’m not advocating for third party voting, I plan on voting for Biden, because I believe change must come from below. Begging the DNC to fix the gaping problems with American society will never get anything done, ever. Organize, donate to strike funds, actually try to build pressure from below.
People really seem to think Biden should have a magic wand, or should somehow impose things the majority of Americans are against and when he can’t they say he’s the devil. It’s so silly.
I’m far more radical left than most people and I’ve come to accept that, I have faith in the strength of my ideas and that they’ll displace capitalism but understand it’ll be a struggle and a fight. Biden has very likely literally no concept of the ideals I value, I imagine it’d take me hours to explain the importance of open source software for example and I don’t expect he’d take it on board very seriously even at best so of course I wouldn’t pick him as the leader of my.movememt but that’s not what people are being asked to pick, they’re picking the president of the whole country so of course he’s also going to have to work in the existing frameworks and with the many factions that exist.
I don’t expect Biden to do anything other than continue the American Liberal project, but I’m also not a reformist, I don’t believe it’s possible to vote Capitalism into Socialism. I only vote for Biden because it appears to me that it is easier to organize a grassroots movement under liberals than under fascists.
Liberalism won’t make America better, it just won’t make it fascist as quickly as the fascist party.
That depends what you think the greatest threats to quality of life for the average in American are. I believe the greatest threat is the corrupt system, which gives more power and money to the rich and screws over almost everyone else, and both of those candidates are firmly entrenched in it.
They both know and embrace their role in that system, although they would phrase it in different terms.
Finally, you asked about objective terribleness. But there is no such thing. This is all subjective, because of course it is, the country has hundreds of millions of residents who all have different priorities.
Biden is a card carrying capitalist, so yes, both are objectively terrible.
Why don’t you move to Venezuela then if you don’t like capitalism?
Then I wouldn’t be able to redistribute your wealth :)
Venezuela is over 75% privatized. It’s Capitalist.
so it’s 25% evil? therefore contaminated, and 100% evil?
Why don’t you move to South Korea if you love capitalism so much. I heard quality of life there is through the roof.
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Proving that liberals like fascism when it’s not pointing at them. To them, it is a weapon that should be wielded against their opponents rather than a blight that needs to be eradicated before it kills us all. Your irresponsibility will have devastating consequences.
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I just read a book and looked it up. you’re right.
it’s just the systemic attacking and wiping out of a group of people.
but not a genocide.
The way to fight the 2 party system, starts at the grass roots and grows upwards, you can Not fight it from the top down.
So say we all.
It would be so much better if we just had rank choice voting
Rank choice, and more party options to use it on
This is asinine. Trump has literally threatened to use dictatorial methods on his first day in office.
It’s like approaching Hitler and Joe Rogan in the same room but you’ve only got one bullet. And instead of using it, you just walk away talking about how they both suck. Like, kill fucking Hitler, what are you doing?
Wait, is Joe Biden promising to kill Trump if elected? Shit, why didn’t you say so?
There’s a pretty good chance Trump will die of a heart attack or flee to Russia if convicted of a crime with serious prison time.
Since when is Joe Rogan bad enough to warrant getting shot in the first place? I feel like the guy has said some bad (and far more dumb) things but it’s not like he poses any kind of danger to anyone does he? I know this is besides the point, but murder is far from proportional to anything (that I am aware of) that Joe has been known to do. With that said I don’t really know much about what he’s been up to for the past 5 years or so.
We had a brief chance to elect Sanders and we failed. Hillary gave us Trump.
I was more in favor of Yang, tbh. Dude had some forward-thinking ideas
A lot of my American friends are buying into this both sides thing, they say prices are up and the democrats aren’t doing enough to deal with the climate so neither really care about anything…
I’ve been an eco obsessive since the 90s so to me it’s painfully clear the night and day difference between the two parties, trying to explain it is so hard because they’ve got their talking points like more drilling under Biden than Trump but when you try to talk about the lag effects related to leased land it’s all just hand waved away - they’ve seen people talking about it as true and not mentioning that lease sales are at all time lows which will result in significantly less permits in future years so it’s ‘Biden bad, end of story.’ Saying ‘they say there’ll be less but they say anything, they said there would be less now’ totally ignoring the logic of the argument.
Right wing psychological experts plan these talking points and seed them, the left falls for them every time it’s so frustrating.
I think part of the problem is people want the world to be simple, the immigration issue is another thing a lot of my left voting friends are struggling with at the moment, blaming the housing crisis on immigration for example then I point out immigrants working construction is super common and they say why don’t they work instead of being put up in hotels so I say there’s a complex process involved in getting a right to work designed to protect American jobs and many are rejected and returned to their country of origin without obtaining this right… but again ‘it’s super complex and messy but they’re trying to improve things’ is easily shrugged off just like with the climate argument by saying ‘they only say they’re trying, trying means nothing only actions matter’
The problem is the two parties play totally different games with totally different objectives. One is trying to tangle a ball of yarn into.a mess and the other is attempting to untangle it and knit a cardigan.
One is trying to tangle a ball of yarn into.a mess and the other is attempting to untangle it and knit a cardigan.
Building on this metaphor, one of my single biggest frustrations with the left is how many of them won’t accept anything short of a fully knit cardigan; unless they get exactly what they want, they’d rather just hand it over to the tanglers.
The issue that I am passionate about is election reform. Including things like getting rid of gerrymandering, making voting more accessible, making the houses more representative of the people, and breaking down big donor influence on elections and policy. Neither of the big two parties comes close to making any of this happen.
If these things are not fixed, the parties in control can do whatever they want. They can keep us divided by shouting about one passion-based issue in public then doing nothing about it while serving big donor interests in legislation.
I don’t see how any mainstream issue matters when you can’t trust elected officials to act on any issue you care about. That is unless you are one of the self-interested donors who writes your own bills. Then it still doesn’t matter which party is in power because you can control them both.
Off topic slightly, but I’ve seen on Lemmy lately where people are saying “get rid of gerrymandering” and I’m curious about the argument for this.
Honestly, I’d love for it to happen, but I assumed it was impossible in a Representative Democracy because of how the system/math worked. Kinda of an inherit problem. Mostly because the ways I’ve heard to remedy this issue is to distribute districts in such a way that they more closely resemble their population ratios. However, isn’t this also a form of gerrymandering? Districts are getting set to way we think they should be. Not saying that wrong persay, just feel like a bandage solution. Like we’re beating a nail in with a wrench. In a way though, this reminds me of the Observer Effect in a way
There isn’t a perfect way to draw districts. I like sortest splitline for its simplicity and impartial strategy.
The best solution I can see is to evolve the House of Representatives into a body of proportional representation. This could be done in state level houses as well. Single winner, or other small number of winners elections should have ranked choice to make it harder for parties to maintain dominance.
This was more of the point I was trying to hit but couldn’t think of
isn’t this also a form of Gerrymandering?
no.
gerrymandering is editing the borders for your party’s gain.
If it’s done to be balanced and representive, then it isn’t gerrymandering.
there’s a super simple solution: stop having the ruling party be allowed to draw the lines. Have the whole thing be controlled by ordinary government bureaucrats. No-one elected involved at any point.
then, suddenly, impossible for gerrymandering to exist, outside of criminal interference.
Class solidarity, I bet those terms are well received by democrats
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It’s not for no reason. It’s because they have stuff we want. Whether that’s resources, land, strategic locations, etc., that’s the reason. Furthermore, we have the means to acquire those things we want. On the great stage, that’s often justification enough.
To be fair, we’re not the only one.
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To be fair, for the last 80 years every other country pales in comparison.
two party system is 50% dictatorship, glad my country have multi party system
As bad as establishment candidates tend to be, trump is far far worse. The problem with the trump supporters is they boil everything down to “X bad, so not X good!” Trump was an outsider which is why they supported him, but just being an outsider doesn’t automatically make you good, and in his case he’s far worse.
When I say this same thing to the die hard blue team voters I get accused of being a Trumper and a fascist.
Tell them you can criticize and vote at the same time, thats what is supposed to make us different from the Maga chuds.
The left side will not let you defend trump or criticize them, its really bad and I dont think its going to end well.
Why in the world would you want to defend 45?! Lol, lmao even.
I will defend anyone that the government is attacking unfairly, or that the media is lying about.
Do enlighten us on how the government is attacking him unfairly, and the lies the media has told about him.
Lets focus on the media, do you really think the news media tells the truth about trump always, or runs misleading or stories with bad sources on purpose?
I definitely do not like Trump, and this comment is by no means me defending him. He has committed crimes and should be prosecuted. However, certain actions by Dems does suggest he was targeted.
One example is his tax returns. It is a tradition for presidents to voluntarily release them. He chose not to. Then democratic controlled congress fought for several years to have them be released for no real reason except to force him.
I also think that prosecutors in New York would have ignored his fraudulent business practices, which they likely ignored for several years prior, if he hadn’t become president and was seeking re-election.
Again, I am not defending him. Lock him up for his crimes. But I also don’t think the democrats motivation is solely coming from the idea of “justice for all.”
The best you can come up with is that they asked him for his tax returns to be mean?
Gestures around
Out of ALL THIS, that (and they should have continued ignoring his fraud) is your example of how the government is attacking him unfairly? A speck of sand compared to a dumptruck full of bullshit?
I am pretty sure the New York fraud case that is sending Trump spiraling is the direct result of testimony that his fixer Cohen gave to Congress. You can probably find the relevant testimony on the youtubes. If memory serves AOC was doing some of the important questioning.
have them be released for no real reason except to force him.
Nope. Turns out that there IS a real reason why public financial disclosure via tax returns has become standards practice for presidential candidates: it’s to show the public that there’s no conflicts of interest to worry about.
That Trump refused to release his was one red flag amongst many indicating that he had foreign business interests that he refused to divest from. Such conflicts of interest are a national security threat in the case of ANY high ranking government official, let alone the president himself.
prosecutors in New York would have ignored his fraudulent business practices, which they likely ignored for several years prior, if he hadn’t become president and was seeking re-election.
So you’re saying that it’s unfair that he no longer gets a free pass to commit tons of crimes now that he’s more publicly visible? Cry me a river!
Again, I am not defending him
Yeah, you are. You may not think that you are, but you definitely are.
This has to be propaganda, right?
This is like saying Capone was treated unfairly because they went after him with everything they had for tax evasion.
Rather than comment on each individual response I figure comment on my own.
I agree with all the points made here.
When they couldn’t get Capone for the murders and rackateering they got him for tax evasion because he deserved it. Trump absolutely deserves all these charges and should go to prison.
I do not believe Trump should get a free pass for his crimes. No one should. I was only suggesting that his crimes may have been ignored until there was a political motivation to look. It shouldn’t have to be that way, but that may have played a role on why they are just now investigating. If they had looked into it earlier it may have disqualified him from running in the first place; which to be clear, is a good thing.
Notice how I didn’t say the Georgia elections case was unfair. He was recorded trying to commit voter fraud and should be charged. There’s plenty in Jan 6th commission report to charge too and I am frustrated that hasn’t happened either.
Whats unfair about the lawsuits against Trump? Afaik, the most unfair bit is that (federalist society weirdo) judge Canon is working her ass off to stall till after the elections.
All of them are things he didnt do wrong, or are something that the other guys in power do, and its not a problem. Literally all of them.
Oh, so, is the defamation case something he didnt do (despite the rock solid evidence), or something he should get away with because other people do it too (the ultimate 6-year-old excuse)?
And does everyone claim their property is worth 500%-800% more for decades on their loan applications?
Have other people gotten away with hiding top secret files in their bathrooms, and lying about having them? Or did that not happen, despite the people moving them being on film?
I don’t even care about the case about campaign finances.
You mentioned four different things, let me address the one I know the most about and is the most obvious. You can claim that your house or property is worth as much as you want, how the process works is that you ask for what you want and claim whatever you want, and then the bank does their underwriting and comes to their own determination of value and how much they want to lend. He did nothing wrong t hat I am aware of.
That’s literally what he’s telling you, and his other followers, to say.
There is zero truth in it. If you don’t get that this guy lies to everyone, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.
I literally never listen to trump, I hear the stories and then find out the truth. If you dove deep on any of the things I am talking about, the facts back up what I am saying (or I wouldnt be saying it).
You are fucking stupid. Jfc.
Yes, patronizing works.
the guy that outlawed collective bargaining?
Raise hell, praise Dale
Why is Dale Earnhardt giving political lessons to a red hat?
