“There are a lot of innocent people who are in trouble and dying,” the president said in a session with reporters.
Gee, then maybe you shouldn’t have cut funding to the biggest single relief agency in the area just because Israel told you to (archive part 1, part 2), you fucking clod
e; Six pages of evidence (archive) about 12 people in an organization of 13000 that we probably didn’t even see (archive) and a bunch of disinformation from Israeli mouthpieces was all it took
You don’t have to prove with links that we did that. We were joined in it by a broad, multilateral coalition of partners.
Those who saw the raw intelligence said it was irrefutable and the problem was significantly more widespread than the 13 people directly accused, all of whom the agency immediately fired upon also seeing the intelligence.
[citation needed]
The fact that you’ve said this makes it obvious that you do not know enough about this story to have an opinion on it. You’re not following it closely enough snd haven’t done your basic homework to come into this conversation.
Did you see the raw intelligence or are we just going with Israel and their allies saying to us “trust me bro”? Seems unlikely that the UN aid agency is actually a secret Hamas organization. That’s very convenient.
That’s not what anyone has said.
Next he will tell them to knock it off. That will show them for sure.
Biden is SO CRITICAL of Israel that he’s ready to send them BILLIONS more dollars without Congressional Approval! THAT will teach Israel to STOP!
Yeha, he’s just making sure he wins the next elections. He knows this is one of the reasons why people won’t vote for him. The fact he is keeping it this tame just shows he really doesn’t want to affect his relations with Israel. So, after he wins, everything will stay the same way.
“over the top” is a bit tame in my opinion. i would frankly go as far as to say what they’re doing is “not cool”, maybe even “uncalled for”
Less than chill
Stop talking and pull the aid. Nothing Biden says on the subject matters while he’s still sending them aid.
I suppose a bowling ball is perhaps sharper than a soggy mattress -_-
*finger wagging strengthens, stern look intensifies*
*wink* *nod* [keeps sending Israel bombs to use against civilians in Gaza]
Are we continuing on the series for Biden’s campaign ads?
“You all thought he was supporting genocide but look he is slapping Israel’s wrist! There you go, now you can vote for him with a clear conscience”
It’s not slapping their wrist, it’s more like wagging his finger.
but he sharpens his criticism!
True, but at least he isn’t the orange orangutan that wants to kill democracy.
It’s so fucking depressing when you have these two as the most likely candidates and the only third option is so unknown that most people won’t know who they are and even less vote for them.
Hell, even the NYT doesn’t show de la Cruz in the running - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/us/politics/presidential-candidates-2024.html
Unfortunately the US elections often come down to voting for the person you dislike less.
Do I like his stance on Israel? No
But his opponent (Trump) stance/actions is worse
So I will hold my nose and do my civic duty
Why do you think trump would be worse on israel? Hes the only president in 50-100 years not to start a war. He got us out of afghanistan. Hes not telling the israelis they have our full throated support. And even more importantly, I cant think of a single way for him personally to get rich off of the israeli genocide, so I can only assume he would have zero interest in prolonging it. Like, honestly, he seems like the least bad option weve had in a long time, because we know exactly how he will behave, and its certainly not as bad as all of the presidents who oversaw mass killings. He will be a buffoon, and he will probably attempt another coup. So what? You think the FBI cant contain a second coup, which they are now expecting? If thats the price we have to pay to get a president who doesnt openly support genocide, im more than willing to pay it.
Well Americans, prepare for Isreal to interfere with your elections.
They can get in line
They have legal bribery there, they don’t even need outside interference lol.
They probably already do
Wow he said a slightly negative sentence about the terrorists he promised to limitlessly fund that genocides brown people. If anybody was wondering why he’s unpopular it’s this shit.
This sounds like the setup to an Onion article: “Biden calls Israel’s response to Gaza, ‘over the top.’ Says that bombing of refugee camps, ‘a bit much,’ and the famine cause by aid blockades, ‘really cringe.’ At press time, President Biden was signing a bipartisan deal to send the Israeli military $20 billion in weapons.”
- Provides political, military, and economic support for Israel after they were attacked horrifically. Refuses to set any limits or conditions upon said support
- Gets taken for a ride by the hardline zealots who see this as their best chance to crush Gaza completely, and already have high level government and cabinet ministers attending & hosting talks to annex Gaza in part or completely
- Cannot undo what he has done in the name of geopolitics, increasingly is getting hammered by Muslim voters in the US at large, and voters across the spectrum who sympathize with the Palestinian civilians, and a growing rebellion within his own party
There was a moral imperative in 1948 & 1967 to support Israel against outside aggression who openly stated they wanted to end Israel. There’s now a moral imperative to protect Gazans and their land as was agreed to in Oslo II.
Enjoy your mess Joe, you sleepwalked into this one, crisis by crisis by believing Bibi unconditionally until very recently. Because now Egypt is getting testy:
Netanyahu’s words have also alarmed Egypt which has said that any ground operation in the Rafah area or mass displacement across the border would undermine its 40-year-old peace treaty with Israel. The mostly sealed Gaza-Egypt border is also the main entry point for humanitarian aid.
That’s a big fucking issue, if Egypt is throwing that language around I doubt Jordan is far behind them. I’ll say it again, is the alliance with Israel worth it, if it jeopardizes US relations with literally every other nation in the gulf?
There was a moral imperative to protect Israel when it was massacring and ethnically cleansing 750,000 Palestinians from their land in 1948? No. There was and continues to be a moral imperative to do everything in order to end the existence of the Zionist entity.
I don’t have the energy to dive into the pre-1948 history of Palestine beyond to say this;
- The Nakba was (and remains) a stain on humanity, as a direct result of European nations like Poland, France, and the UK callously using the holocaust as cover for their own anti-Semitic motivations to ‘offload’ their Jewish population into Palestine, at the expense of the locals
- The British especially, but the Allied powers as a whole, undermined the crumbing Ottoman Empire by promising self-determination to the Arab rebels, all while having already assigned and divided that land for themselves and their Allies after WW1
- Irgun and other Jewish militias were doing A LOT of terrorism, against both the British in charge during Mandatory Palestine, and the existing Arab population and civilians
While acknowledging the above, the fact is that in 1948 there was a Jewish population there,
who were facing a second genocide attempt that decade.The powers that be washed their hands of it, not unlike the Fall of Saigon or Afghanistan, yet we don’t learn from our interventionism. To unwind this problem requires either a robot peace that both sides want, or one of the two getting ethnically cleansed.Wrong. There was a white supremacist colonialist Zionist presence in Palestine, which aimed to sieze the country for itself and dispossess its natives, which it did through massacres and ethnic cleansing. There was no “second genocide attempt”. There was only Palestinian and Arab self defence in the face of an armed, murderous society that sought to dispossess and erase the Palestinian people entirely. The solution is the destruction of the settler colonialist state and that is what will happen.
> 'It does not matter how many there are. We will sweep them into the sea. Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha, 1948Idk that certainly sounds like “kill them all”I’m not denying the origins of Israel, that it was created by colonial powers at the expense of Arabs & Palestinians, nor that it displaced a significant Palestinian population after an organized and protracted campaign of Zionist, Jewish terrorism. However in 1948 the reality is the Jews were there, and the rhetoric from the top was of elimination and eradication - and that is a genocidal act
The quote from Alec Kirkbride’s memoirs:
“when I asked him for his estimate of the size of the Jewish forces, [he] waved his hands and said: 'It does not matter how many there are. We will sweep them into the sea.”
It is clear this is referring to the Zionist armed forces that were in fact committing the massacres. This was after the Zionist forces actually pushed the Palestinians of Haifa into the sea under rifle fire. In other instances, the same official declared that equality between Jewish settlers and Palestinians was to be implemented.
All this being said, I will not mince words, the Palestinian people have every right to remove the Zionist colonial presence from their land, and they had that right in 1948 when this militarized settler society put into action its goal of dispossessing the entire Palestinian people.
You are correct, I retract my position on the 1948 war and the quote’s context
But one genocide is not better than another. There’s no ethical way to take sides here. What we should really do is end our involvement. The obvious way to avoid being complicit in murder is to stop taking part in it. We should end all support for Israel, no weapons no money. They can get humanitarian aid if need be, but no f-16s or cruise missiles.
Isreal can either make friends with their neighbors on their own, or they can risk getting wiped out, their choice.
There is absolutely an ethical side - pro-civilian.
Walking away completely, right now, would just leave a broken Gaza being strangled by blockade, fractured West Bank constantly being raided by the IDF and/or Zionist mobs or eaten away gradually by an illegal settlements with Israeli state support, and the Golan Heights a contested low intensity battlefield. Palestinians and Arabs in Israel would continue to live under an apartheid ethnostate as second class citizens.
Retaining the status quo doesn’t solve any of the harms done by Israel, it’s the easy out.
Honestly, if we ended US financial support for Israel, I think it would make a pretty big difference. Isreal would likely be forced to focus more on stabilizing relations with their hostile neighbors. And any attempt to do that would require employing a very different strategy with Palestine.
I had nothing to do with it, damnit.
I think it was the great philosopher Eric Cartman who said it best
“You people who are for the war, you need the protesters. Because they make the country look like it’s made of sane, caring individuals. And you people who are anti-war, you need these flag-wavers, because, if our whole country was made up of nothing but soft pussy protesters, we’d get taken down in a second. That’s why the founding fathers decided we should have both. It’s called “having your cake and eating it too.”
Don’t get me wrong, I am definitely a soft pussy protestor, but Biden is clearly having his cake and eating it too.
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