The U.S. will mark the anniversary of the January 6 insurrection on Saturday, a milestone that will confer upon the reality-dwelling citizenry a grim reminder of the potency of propaganda and how quickly it can warp perception when introduced into the public square.
Just three years ago, most of the country watched with dismay and horror as a violent MAGA mob beat back authorities and stormed the country’s citadel of democracy. The Donald Trump-incited crush of disillusioned rioters, fueled by a stream of fantastical lies, believed that the 2020 election had been stolen by sinister forces working to undermine the democratic election.
Of course, not only was their belief flatly incorrect, but evidence later emerged indicating that it was Trump who, in fact, had tried to subvert democracy.
Facts, however, have little bearing on the sentiment inside the Republican Party, which has been fed a steady diet of lies and half-truths by Fox News and the rest of the sprawling right-wing media machine. To wit, the false notion that Joe Biden nefariously stole the 2020 election is now widely shared inside the GOP. A CNN poll conducted over the summer found that nearly 70% of Republicans believe Biden’s win was not legitimate, a number that has continued to tick up.
IMO, this event was worse for America and the world than 9/11. What goodwill and credibility can America exercise on the world stage when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?
If he had convinced the Capital Police to get rid of the metal detectors, as he tried to do, America would be under a Trump dictatorship right now.
As if his capitulation to Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, or North Korea shouldn’t immediately disqualify him, or the millions of dollars he personally received from foreign governments during his presidency.
when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?
remember Adolf Hitler tried to start an insurrection, got caught, thrown in jail, wrote a book, and then got elected and started World War 2.
And remember how much Trump loves dictators.
Nothing personal against Mike Pence, but there’s a part of me that thinks it would have been better if he’d gotten in that car and been disappeared.
An assassinated vice president would have forced Biden to crack down on fascism harder.
But without effective leadership, the problem’s gotten worse.
If that has happened, I doubt we would have a president Biden or an upcoming election.
I don’t think that’s accurate.
Every other aspect of the attack was unsuccessful, and not only that, but pathetically so. But if they’d manage to assassinate a VP, Biden and his administration would not have been able to simply ignore it. They would have had to act, even if it pisses off the billionaires.
Pence stopped Trump’s group delivering the fake electors to steal the election. If Pence disappeared Trump would have never left office.
Pence made the the last minute stand to save our country. Terrible viewpoints and politics, but at the end he did his job
Because Dan “Potatoe” Quayle told him to not go along with the coup.
Mike fucking Pence and Dan fucking Potatoe Quayle saved our Democracy and the US Democratic Republic.
What a timeline.
Still,… there are many many timelines where it worked, Trump is the Orange King, and I’m dead now from being put up against a wall; so I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.
If they would have assassinated Pence on J6, before the certification, someone else would have stepped in, most likely Grassley. He would have accepted the alternate slate of electors and Biden would not be president.
I guess the law says the senate is supposed to choose someone if the vice president is unavailable to access president of the senate.
Man, I had forgotten about that car thing. I don’t know. They wouldn’t have harmed him. They would have delayed him enough that he couldn’t certify the vote. Then Trump had plans to use the military to seize voting machines (after which he would have obviously lied about whatever his goons found).
The Joint Chiefs memo was very comforting regarding the transition but it came on January 12th and cited the Congressional certification in saying “we will evict him with force on January 21.” If the certification didn’t happen, the transition and the election would have remained uncertain.
I think there is very little appetite in Washington for such uncertainty, but one side of the aisle is treasonous and would gladly acquiesce.
Ya but…9/11 was brown people, 1/6 was white people.
There is absolutely a difference in how Americans view the people involved. That’s only been reinforced with this incident.
The ONE, and ONLY thing that stopped the coup was Pence growing a backbone at the exact time it mattered. It wasn’t out of honor or duty, it was out of narcissism. He didn’t want to be known forever as the man who facilitated The Corporate Theocracy of America.
imo the genocide in Gaza is far worse
America is geopolitically isolated on its support for Israel, to the point where it’s rapidly accelerating the collapse of its hegemony. We might lose Turkey in NATO, we might lose Egypt’s cooperation on migration, dedollarization is accelerating, normalization between Israel and the surrounding neighbors is dead, international law is a joke, and this is happening at the same time that French imperialism in Africa is also collapsing with coups and revolts.
It’s Joever
EDIT Downvoting me won’t bring back American prestige you fuckin libs. What is Biden going to do when South Africa’s suit against Israel finds them guilty of the crime of genocide? When America is compelled by international law to take available actions to stop genocide?
I’ll tell you what he’ll do! Nothing. When he does, the rest of the world is going to continue leaving America behind. Good riddance. 😜
They’re not down voting you because they’re liberals. They’re down vote you because you’re likely an accelerationis hypocrite. With shitty unconstructive hot takes and zero actual solutions.
You’re talking to a child who provokes others for attention. Stop giving it to them.
An accelerationist would advocate voting for Trump to hasten to collapse of America. I’m not doing that. I’m just not voting for Biden.
Hell, I’m voting down ticket Democrat in case Trump wins and they need to obstruct his agenda! Hardly accelerationism.
I have a proposal, stop sending weapons to the fucking genocide, stop trying to use the military to protect a genocide. It’s not a poster online doing this, it’s our fucking government accelerating things you twat.
Love when a quisling shows up to say I’m the threat
Here’s a proposal for you. As a non linenist Marxist and socialist I agree. As do many Democrats and liberals even. The thing is, our goals have to be realistic and achievable. And realistically what’s achievable is likely either a Biden or Trump presidency. And believe me things will be worse under Trump. For democrats to be able to make any sort of positive change they have to be in control. Even if that means a flawed candidate like Biden.
Had I seen the name of the person I replied to. I either probably would have just downloaded and not replied. And definitely would not have used the term likely hypocrite. It’s a 100% thing with them. And likely with a twat like yourself. U ml are like perpetual 10-year-olds. Your own worst enemies and saboteurs. And a threat to everyone else.
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our goals have to be realistic and achievable
Abolition wasn’t realistic or achievable until we fought a civil war over it.
Not advocating anything! Just something to think about.
Sadly, it’s more complicated than that. See, you have multi-billionaire shareholders in the companies manufacturing the weapons we’re selling, and they will absolutely sue the federal government over lost profits, and The Federalist Society SCOTUS stooges currently in office will rule in their favor. Thanks, Capitalism.
Wait until you learn that the republican agenda will keep doing the same regarding gaza.
That’s why I’m not voting for them. 🙄
Let me guess third PaRtY
No, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. It’s still Her turn!
Do you get high fives from the other Cuntrarians and the lunch table for “Owning The Libs?” Do they think you’re a badass?
Trust me, I do this purely for my own enjoyment.
Sure, and that hillary clinton is with you in the same room?
If you mean Bill’s wife, she is not running.
You can write in anyone you want dawg
America’s not going down without taking everyone with them.
They’re crazy!
America is taking everyone with them anyway! See the latest climate summit for an example.
I’m more concerned about the American so-called communist who live in their mommy’s basements and troll online.
You’re concerned about something you made up more than runaway climate change. Cool!
Very American.
You’re assuming my nationality.
Not everyone who uses Lemmy is American.
They only make up 4% of the world population in fact.
You’re talking to a Russian troll.
No, I’m telling you that you post like an American and your politics are like that of an American.
Also, you assumed a lot of shit about me? My parents are passed, I’m a factory worker and live in a trailer, fuck off.
America is the only country in the world with a nuclear first strike policy, and to have used nuclear weapons on civilians. The best thing that can happen for the rest of the world is for it to fall to internal power struggles.
Not quite true, have you heard of the Semipalatinsk Test Site?
I have, and I would say that the circumstances/implications are very different. One was the unforseen negative health impacts of a nuclear test site the other was the use of nuclear weapons on two population centers.
Also that’s whataboutism I think lol. We’re talkin about US crimes
No you are, I’m talking about whatever the fuck I want to thank you very much.
Which is pivoting to USSR bad propaganda in a thread about how the real issue in everyones minds should be the ongoing genocide in occupied Palestine?
Yeah I’m calling that whataboutism lmao
LoL. Best wishes champ.
You’re telling the truth. The only thing Israel is to the US is a another military staging area if shit kicks off in The Middle East. That’s it. That said, Biden is not the entire admisistration. No President is. It takes Congress to change this shit, and way too many defense contrators and their shareholders are making way too much money for this to change.
And also, I can’t remember the exact quote, and I’m paraphrasing, is “People tell you they want to hear the truth, but they’ll hate you for saying it.”
As we saw in 2008 and 2020, it requires such an impossibly huge majority to change anything that it’s a pipedream. Structurally impossible.
As an outsider, I find American obsession over Jan 6th to be absolutely bizarre. At worst it was a riot. How exactly is a riot at the capital going to cause a coup? I’m guessing you too probably have overblown Jan 6th concerns but peoples response to your comment only confirms my thoughts. People are so entrenched in maintaining the “most dangerous thing since the civil war” that they are willing to consume their own over the smallest disagreements.
Also, these people claiming Trump would be worse in Gaza, but it’s not clear the US would be worse in Gaza if Trump won, the US has put up zero road blocks currently and with Trump in the Whitehouse the democrats would actually push back against the genocide because Trump is now president. Plus more negative press from the corporate media, again, because Trump is in charge. Not saying it’s the most likely case, but it can be argued.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
Yeah the riot had no realistic chance of success. A much more realistic coup will be one done by the 6-3 Supreme Court!
I still think it’s fair to call them insurrectionists and treat them as such, but it was hardly “worse for America and the world than 9/11”
Three years later, the ring leader and main benefactor is still free and openly lying.
This country is a joke. Literally incapable of defending itself from the inside. The US is beyond pathetic and will go down in history as such. We are so capable yet choose corruption.
My guy, a country founded on the backs of a native American genocide and then 300 years of slavery, that decrees freedom above all else? You’ve never not been a joke.
My guy, the goodness or badness of the country says NOTHING to refute my point that it is presently utterly and completely failing to defend itself from the inside.
Their continued refusal to acknowledge that it was a crime, and the normalization of criminal conspiracy and use of political violence to chill efforts to hold people accountable… all amounts to organized crime masquerading as legitimate politics
I’m still shocked to this day that police weren’t mowing people down as they tried to force their way in. By not doing so, they basically said, “this is fine” IMO.
Some of them on camera got caught removing the barriers and ushering them in.
“Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses”
It’s clear some people haven’t seen the videos that have come out: quite a few people were let in by police. There is also some number of “arrested” people who turned out to be police and there is some evidence of them agitating the crowd.
I’ve got to admit, having seen similar tactics at the G20 protests in Toronto that resulted in total authoritarian overreaction, I’m now reading this telling of Jan 6 as an insurrection with skepticism.
LoL. This is the stupidity that you get from watching Fox News and their ilk. Totally debased from reality.
I don’t watch Fox News, nor am I American.
It doesn’t take a genius to see Jan 6 is more complicated than “chuds attacked the capitol”. “Lefty” mainstream media in America is just a different flavour of neoliberal shit slung by an opposing oligarch. American politics and media are just IRL WWE but with actual stakes and these psychopaths on all sides don’t care who they hurt.
Examples of the IRL WWE in action on the “left”: Kyle Rittenhouse, Nick Sandmann, Johnny Depp. On the “right”: election interference, welfare queens, Planned Parenthood rumors.
As hard as this will be for you to accept, you’re being sold lies just the same as the people you mock for being uninformed.
I’d rather take a principled stance here and protect people’s rights even if I find those people and their actions distasteful, than create a precedent and make those rights harder to protect and uphold later. Some of what happened here is entrapment and its bullshit.
That’s a lot of words to say nothing
God you people are morons
Ok let me simplify it for you: the story you’ve been told is just as fake as the Fox News story. Hope that helps.
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And you have some truth you want to lay on us, or is this just a broadly conspiratorial statement?
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
So this was a left wing plot and for the first several hours, as Republicans begged Trump to do literally anything and he refused, he was actually doing what in your mind? Fighting a hidden battle against the deep state? All evidence suggests that Trump was more than OK with what was happening as it furthered his goals and supported his many other schemes of fraud, deception, and intimidation in order to remain in power.
I can’t tell if you’re agitating on the side of the insurrectionist traitors, or just stating facts. But there were collaborators on the side of the defenders. Multiple law enforcement and active military members have been arrested and charged for their participation of the insurrection.
So you’re saying the Police are complicit with Trump and his violent right wing extremists?
This. When I first heard I imagined they’d set up a few MG nests and show they weren’t fucking around. I was quite surprised by how little a reaction, especially from the most gun happy country
They were the right colour.
I feel like there’s a major attribute of most of the crowd that affected this…
The seditionists were likely well armed, so firing at them might have felt like suicide.
If they weren’t lily white, it would have be a bloodbath, Tianemen Square style.
My MAGA dad keeps telling me it was an inside job by the Democrats. He’s saying everything was filmed way in advance by actors and everything was peaceful because of this mystical “new evidence” coming out; all the cops were a-part of the FBI, CIA, ect.
QanonCasualties. I’m sorry for your loss.
my parents are like this. i have never taken them seriously regarding anything
My sister was a medical lab tech for over 40 years, in a hospital, and she’s a vaccine denier. I can’t understand that. It’s all Fauci’s fault. But she fills her head with fear and hate from Fox every night.
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Even the Republicans who admit Trump was at fault for the events of 1/6 still say they’ll vote for him.
It isn’t about right and wrong to them, its about getting a fascist in the White House to reorder society into their prescribed hierarchy. Different factions have their grudges: trans people & other sexual minorities, POCs, foreigners, religious minorities, and leftists.
The hatred is what unites them, but they’re too goddamn stupid to see that fascism always eats itself in the end because it constantly needs a new target upon which they can focus their blinding rage.
It’s extremely blatant at this point and they aren’t trying to hide it. Support for Republicans is support for American fascism and Christian nationalism at this point. We really need to start acting like it. You wouldn’t hire a Nazi. You wouldn’t go on a date with one, or allow one in your bar or invite them to thanksgiving. America could defeat Nazis again without lifting a finger, but everyone is too fucking afraid that uncle Marty might get upset to take direct action in their own lives. So we’ll end up back to fighting them in the streets one day.
“When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labelled ‘made in Germany’; it will not be marked with a swastika; it will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism’.”
Look for Republicans to make a holiday of January 6th. It’s only a matter of time.
The article correctly identifies Fox News and right-wing media as spreading propaganda about Jan. 6th. However, we’ve known Fox News is not a legitimate news source since at least 2000 or earlier. For every article like this, I am internally screaming: ok, but how do we do to fix this?
The biggest problems seem to be:
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Fox News and related right-wing media inoculates viewers against non-extremist sources. They explicitly and implicitly, constantly, tell viewers that other news sources are lying to them and cannot be trusted. When the audience is exposed to actual facts by actual objective reporting, the inoculation kicks in and they immediately reject those facts as liberal lies and conspiracy. Right-wing media frequently also accuses democrats of doing what the GOP is in fact doing in bad faith. Even without evidence, that further undermines legitimate complaints about the GOP’s tactics.
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Politicians exploit the audience this propaganda has created, to scapegoat and harden voting habits. The same propaganda outlets constantly find liberal boogeymen - immigrant criminals, “woke” nonsense stories, minor issues with liberal programs in America that they amplify and distort, international stories of left-wing failures of governance. A combination of 1984-style 2-minutes-of-hate, and “but for the grace of God and the GOP go we” fear-mongering.
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The GOP has successfully tied itself to religion for a huge voting population, and religion for most people is non-negotiable. “Gods, guns and Trump” signs are not just an anecdotal type of supporter - that marriage is the core of the GOP. Religion awards value based on faith, and that actually means the less these voters question Trump and accept him as part of their faith, the better they feel about him. That’s a huge problem.
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There is no required critical thinking training or teaching in schools to help kids understand how to form their own opinions in the midst of essentially information warfare. Schools can’t appear partisan, but to call a spade a spade: Kids are growing up bombarded by propaganda, and by the time they have the facilities to decide for themselves what they think, that environment usually has decided for them.
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My best thoughts for fixing:
- For #s 1-2, voters need to keep the senate and presidency and take the house this year (no big deal!), and implement a “news” media fact-checking law. Defamation/libel laws are not enough to stop this type of propaganda. It would be difficult within the First Amendment, but I think a law formalizing what is considered “news” that sets a cap on opinion pieces, unsupported speculation, and reporting of non-verifiable facts would be a start and not unconstitutional. No speech would be prevented, but Fox News’ brand of trash couldn’t be called “news” any longer. The challenge is creating a legal tool that can’t easily be misused to enforce the very authoritarian propaganda it’s trying to prevent.
- For #s 1-2 and 4, state governments could introduce a comprehensive critical thinking curriculum for kids. It’s objectively non-partisan to help kids critically assess information in the internet/social media age, so this seems sellable as long as it isn’t politicized.
- For #3, I don’t know the best way. I think at least introducing cognitive dissonance showing how different religion tells us to act versus how Trump and company act would be a start, but it’s probably impossible to untangle politics and religion to most on the right.
In fact the whole “parents choice” movement is very openly and explicitly about making sure that children are not taught critical thinking or exposed to ideological diversity in school.
I enjoyed reading your take on this.
As for point #3, is there not already a separation of church and law in the US?
To continue upon others threads. In theory, on paper. You are correct. In practice, that was left behind decades ago. Back in the 1940s the Christian Right began to coalesce. In the 70s it became a prominent voting bloc. Cut to present day and you have preachers telling their congregation who to vote for because they have a wink and a smile contract. Hurt the people we hate and we will give you power.
It’s more than that - you have none other than the Church of Scientology to blame, partially. Thanks to their Operation Snow White back in the 70s, where Scientologists obtained key positions within the IRS and effectively doxxed thousands of IRS members (with the implicit threat of violence), they managed to maintain tax-free status despite operating as a political entity, and killed an entire investigation into their organization in one fell swoop. This spooked the IRS so goddamn much that it changed their entire approach to dealing with religious organizations entirely, and led to the hands-off approach that got us the Moral Majority in the 80s, and the marriage of the GOP to the American religious right.
Unfortunately, “separation of church and state” is a nice goal but leaves a lot to be desired.
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from establishing a particular religion (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”). However, even that relatively narrow prohibition has been interpreted even more narrowly by conservative Supreme Court justices who only thinly veil, if at all, their favoritism to their particular religion.
Additionally, non-profit orgs are technically prohibited from endorsing candidates and campaigning. However, conservative churches and their pastors frequently give (again) thinly-veiled instructions to vote for Trump or the GOP, without repercussions.
There is, but that only prevents the government from acting as a religious organization. It doesn’t prevent a group of private citizens from deciding to vote only for religious extremists, thereby filling all the lower offices with theocrats who slowly work their way up the chain until until they control the federal government. All the way they pay lip service to religious freedom until they have the numbers and authority to do away with it.
For point 1, that’s absolutely not getting past the 1st amendment, and it really doesn’t matter that it’s called news. People treat their crazy uncle’s conspiracy Facebook posts as “news” and labeling doesn’t really do much if anything to discourage this behavior.
For the idea of critical thinking and education, this is something that democrats should be campaigning on and promising, although obliquely. It should probably come in the form of increasing funding for schools (MASSIVELY) and then add in media literacy courses and such to the curriculum. Although, that said, there are already schools that do this in some form or fashion, but the problem is that far too many school boards are overrun with nuts, and this ties into point 3…
Religion being tied to governance is a real, real problem. Teaching kids critical thinking is going to teach a lot of them, especially Republicans and Evangelicals, that they are being fed a steady stream of bullshit. We still have enough religious association that even getting this across to Democrats and left leaning in a major way is going to be tricky.
On a hopeful note, the most zealous of this population is dying out. Levels of religion have been steadily dropping for a while now. I think as more of this magical thinking dies out, we’re more likely to see positive improvement. Of course, we have to not become a fascist state in the meantime.
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No it’s just poisoning the people that have no logical thinking and believe anything Trump says.
You’d be surprised. I know personally people who traditionally support the GOP but despise Trump who believe a bunch of the bullshit around January 6 because they hear it from their circles. Like how Antifa was involved.
Have you asked them why antifa would want to delay kicking Trump out of the white house?
They would just claim it was to ‘make the them look bad’ or something similar. That’s the beauty of bullshit; it’s like a perpetual avalanche. It’s overwhelming and incredibly difficult to counter.
Logic has nothing to do with it. It’s pure racism. They’ve been conditioned their whole lives to fear and hate “The Other,” instead of recognizing who’s really fucking them. I.E., the ultra rich.
I’m not a conservative republican, but I do agree not all right wingers are bad, we have a representative democracy because what works for me in my medium sized city dosent work for Matt in New York, or Jerry in BFE Montana. It’s the division that the partisan politics thats truly hurting us all.
The narrative around this event has been downplayed so much that it feels like a non factor for Trump. If it was anyone else in trouble for this there wouldn’t be so much debate.
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I think people are too literal when trying to understand each other. If someone says they believe in god, it means they identify as someone who believes in god. If someone says they think the election was stolen, it means they identify as someone who thinks the election was stolen. You don’t defeat this with direct education / facts, you give these people an out. They need identities that are constructive and based in reality. Friends, family, culture… it all needs to be rewritten. Then they’ll “believe” in reality.
That’s an excellent point and probably why things only continue to get worse
You have to drink the poison willingly.
Not necessarily.
Point being, they’ll doing it again if given the chance.
Need to start dealing with these people like nazis
Give them good jobs at NASA and other government agencies?
