Tesla’s value plunged nearly $200 billion since mid-July – and the EV maker faces a bumpy road ahead::Tesla shares closed Tuesday at just over $233, well down on their 2023 peak of $291.
maybe they should focus on making a decent product instead of manufacturing bs
The products are decent. Just that there are a lot more competitions that make much better cars.
Teslas are the most recalled vehicles on the market.
over the course of 30 years*. people rarely keep cars for that long, let alone an EV. by year 10 most EVs will be clapped as fuck you might just have to sell it for scrap metal
fact is Teslas still represent good value if you’re just after a base Model Y and 3. they’re are OK, average, decent.
fit and finish is far from German counterparts but if you don’t care, and don’t want a Chinese EV either you’re left with Tesla.
Well, I’d say the value of the Tesla isn’t the car at all, it’s in being the first to popularize Evs, the brand they’ve built, and in the recharging network they’ve built.
As far as the cars go theres just too many reported problems. Take the above things away and you’re left with just an ok car. Why would you invest all that money in something that’s just ok, especially when you can go to the nearest competitor who not only has way more money and experience in the industry but can produce a cheaper more reliable product. Not to mention the fact that they have the dealerships across the country to handle their vehicles and perform maintenance.
Where tesla shined really was in how the brand became associated with success and quality, and in how large a recharging network they built. Nobody else has come close to achieving either. With musk acting like a dumbass they’ve lost the it factor. Should have been obvious with the cyber truck. Elon basically acted out that episode of the simpsons where homer bankrupts his brothers car company by designing a hilariously bad car. They do still have the charging network, and I think that value cannot be understated, but in 10 years ev charging will become ubiquitous and that won’t matter.
Tesla was at its peak when musk mostly shut the fuck up and pretended to be the ambitious billionaire genius focused on the betterment of humanity.
Now it’s clear that space Karen was little more than a guy who got extremely lucky in the early dot com days and amassed an insane fortune. Strip elon of his wealth and ask him to do it again and he would never be able to.
It’s sad too, I wanted to get a Tesla but now there’s just no way. Not when Space Karen can just auto install some update that requires I pay a subscription to use the ac. Fuck that shit, too unreliable.
Setting aside anything related to Musk, Tesla really doesn’t seem to be staying competitive.
Cybertruck (and the “indestructible” window press conference) is probably the easiest example. Years of attempted hype that haven’t paid off in a meaningful manner, while rivals have been releasing in-class competition. Anyone can see that’s a problem.
Tesla cars used to be pretty revolutionary, now they’re in an entirely different era that’s filling with exciting EV alternatives around every corner. Yet Tesla style still looks the same. The shoddy construction is still around and becoming more widespread knowledge. They’re failing to attract their target audience due to a long series of missteps. More problems.
Not to mention that Tesla was downright overpriced at its height. It’s a fraction of the volume yet made other automaker valuations look minuscule. The logic for that was never there.
Besides Musk…it’s the fact they are still using the same design from 10+ years ago. When I see a tesla, I can’t tell the difference between the S & 3 or the X & Y. They made one car and scaled it in their software. All 4 cars are due for a redesign and they don’t need to all look identical. And they need to figure out how to actually assemble them without being shit.
Nothing wrong with that if it’s successful. VW used the same design language for the Beetle/Van/Truck for ages.
Same design language and copy cats are different. I can clearly make the difference of a Jetta/Passat or Civic/Accord. They obviously share a similar design but are definitely their own. Tesla’s on the other hand, I couldn’t tell you the difference of the X or Y. They look identical. Even the sedans look damn near identical. And no other car company keeps the exact same design for 10+ years (besides Toyota and the 4Runner)
Most people can’t tell a Macan from a Cayenne or a 911 from a 718, doesn’t matter what enthusiasts think, normies are the people who represent the majority and they’re buying the cars anyway.
Cybertruck is a symptom of poor leadership. Maybe after it flops, Tesla will clean house.
Musk only owns about 14% of Tesla. The other stockholders should clean house of the board and CEO.
While I agree Cybertruck may have jumped the shark, I recently noticed …. After years of GM saying cylindrical batteries are not practical and pouch batteries are the only way to go, and Ultium is more advanced than anything Tesla has …. They’re redesigning EV models early to switch to cylindrical batteries like Tesla
The only reason GM (and others) tried to tout pouch cells is because there was a complete lack of cylindrical production capacity available. Tesla was using it all.
What are you going to do, say we’d rather use these other batteries but we can’t, so here you go?
I am ecstatic that most of the major manufactures have finally decided to transition to prismatic and/or cylindrical.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if regulations one day prevent use of pouch cells for automotive purposes.
Give it 5 - 10 years. Tesla will be a company that makes and maintains a charging station network and sells batteries to the other auto makers.
It’s becoming increasingly obvious that they can’t hack it in an automotive sales industry. Which is fine, frankly. I think battery manufacturing and charging network are pretty complimentary industries and provide a decent revenue stream into the future, License the charging tech to other automakers early and get some vendor lock-in going, and the company could be in it for the long haul.
They might even be able to keep making a couple EVs, to prove new charging or battery tech, much like how Google keeps making Pixel phones to essentially prove and market new Android features.
and sells batteries to the other auto makers.
My limited understanding of the matter is that their batteries are overpriced and nothing special compared to alternatives.
The real game changer that seems to be coming down the pipeline is the solid state battery Toyota has been teasing. If they manage to bring that to market while holding important patents on the technology it’s basically game over for other kinds of battery for EVs.
Are you referring to Tesla’s 4680’s or the cells that Tesla gets from Pansonic?
Re: Panasonic
Tesla’s been refining their cells with Panasonic for quite awhile and have done things like substantially reduced the cobalt used compared to others (at least as of couple years ago). I’m not sure what the differences in wh/kg are compared to others today.
Panasonic is also much more efficient at making those cells at scale which gives Tesla an edge on their cost.
Tesla has always made their own batteries (the grouping of the cells). Their battery + BMS on the other hand is substantially better than other manufacturers. They can manufacture the battery much cheaper than others, and the BMS keeps it running smoothly.
For example - The Fords Mach E performance model can’t (or couldn’t) even do more than a launch or two before having to throttle itself due to heat. They currently have recalls happening due to contactors having problems with heat.
Re: Tesla’s 4680 Cells
Right now, they’re nothing special from a wh/kg perspective, what they’re main goal for them is to be substantially cheaper to manufacture than the cells other manufactures make. If you can make them for 2/3 the cost you’ll have huge advantage over everyone else, and then also you don’t have to pay the mark up to Panasonic or LG either.
Only time will tell if their chemistry/anode/cathode improvements will make their cells better than what other manufactures are producing now and in the future. Personally, I’d be nervous to get a 1st / 2nd gen version of these cells/batteries while they work things out.
Re: Solid state
If that ever happens and they are cost competitive to produce, then that’ll be a big deal ya. What if they aren’t cost competitive though?
Will you be willing to pay $10-15k more for the same range but faster charging, higher safety, and more lifecycles?
You’re right though, they are the future eventually.
Tesla makes batteries for $80/kwh. Everyone else is paying $120.
Have they even released that damn truck? It’s been years and I haven’t seen one while the s,3,x, and Ys are everywhere when I go to work
Nope. First production one completed in July, nearly four years after the first press release. Supposedly customer deliveries at some point of Q3 2023, which is basically down to a month left.
The first truck was also “completed” right before their quarterly earnings, which I’m sure was a coincidence. No other trucks have been publicly shown to be assembled.
Good luck with this post. This sub is the worst now. Trolls all over the place, downvoting facts and just flat out lying.
What exciting EV alternative can I buy right now for the same price as the model 3, that offers everything Tesla does?
Ioniq 5, more expensive, no supercharger network. Mach E, more expensive, no supercharger network (yet). BMW i4, more expensive, no supercharger network. EV6, more expensive, no supercharger network.
I honestly don’t get where people get their information from and just pull shit out of their ass. If you want a new EV with fast charging, you can’t beat a model 3.
Let me add a little bit more context. Tesla can’t even meet their current demand. Currently, no automaker can. They are all battery constrained. Everyone is rushing to build plants and mines, just to scale up. The demand for EVs is there, but no one is building more because the batteries aren’t available.
Not competitive, lol. They sell more EVs than anyone. Almost 1/4 million a quarter.
They have a massive head start, but that will not last.
BYD is not far behind them and VW is closing fast. 2022 EV volumes
Who else has hands free driving on local roads?
Mercedes for example - and it works better than Tesla’s on shitty roads.
Mercedes for example has two cars that just launched FSD this year. Vs Tesla who has 4 cars that can do autopilot for 3 years or more. Again I’m not trying to say Tesla is the best car, I’m trying to say they have differntiated features that few, if not any companies have had over the years, and yea that does not excuse their CEO from being a total douche.
Mercedes for example has two cars that just launched FSD this year on local roads. Vs Tesla who has 4 cars that can do autopilot for 3 years or more on local roads. Again I’m not trying to say Tesla is the best car, I’m trying to say they have differntiated features that few, if not any companies have had over the years, and yea that does not excuse their CEO from being a total douche.
Exactly. So many of the naysayers haven’t used fsd first hand, so they don’t know how close they are to solving a huge problem. And no one else is really even trying anymore. Ask a graduating senior in IT or robotics where they dream of working and it’s Tesla.
If you’re using FSD without your hands, you’re not doing what you’re explicitly supposed to be doing.
So basically you’re saying that so many of the naysayers haven’t used FSD the wrong (and dangerous) way.
I’m using drive assist without my feet, I can keep my pinky on the wheel and give it the slightest pressure every few minutes when prompted. This is a God send in stop and go city traffic. I used to have super high stress in traffic every day, now I let the Tesla do all the stop and go braking/keeping distance/keeping center and it’s way less stressful. I know other manufacturers have drive assist but I’ve driven my siblings BMWs Mercedes Maseratis Jaguars Land Rovers and (unless you’ve got a 2024 Mercedes) none of them are as easy to use as Tesla.
I fucking hate Elon musk by the way, and I’m not a Tesla fanboy, I they do a lot of anti consumer bullshit. I just think to over correct and say the cars have nothing better to offer vs competitors is disingenuous
Again, that’s not how you’re supposed to use it.
Again, that still differentiates this company vs any other car. The entire argument we’re having is that they don’t do anything different than anyone else.
Such a remarkably overvalued company. I’d be surprised if it’s still around in a few decades. Feels like they’re the MySpace of today - they’re big and have first mover advantage but have nothing interesting down the line and newer companies will and are supplanting it.
Nothing interesting? They’ve got the Cybertruck!
Not good. But interesting.
I don’t disagree with those statements but I’d wait to see what they put out from the Mexican factory considering the labor cost advantage and manufacturing experience they’ve gained. Beyond that I agree that Korean and Chinese EVs seem more put together and well see if we get more when the us subsidies end.
People have been saying this for years now. This site is something else. Top posts related to climate change while at the same time bashing Tesla, the number one producer of EVs and arguably the reason why all automakers are now making the transition to clean energy. All of this because the CEO is a fucking horrible person. Guess what? Almost every product you have in your home or have ever used came from a company that had a terrible human being as their CEO. Tesla’s sales have been growing each year. They’re building a new plant in Mexico. A few decades? So, 30 years from now? Wow, what a ballsy prediction. /s You could, literally, insert any company’s name in there. If climate change goes as predicted, Tesla being around will be the least of everyone’s worries.
They’re building a new plant in Mexico.
That’s what will really take the comparative stock price of actual automakers into the stratosphere with Tesla you guys, a fucking factory in Mexico. How could Ford or Hyundai match having a factory in Mexico?!
Lol, the last Ford I bought (shit car btw) was built in Mexico. Tell me again why Tesla has 20x the market cap of Ford because it surely ain’t factories in Mexico.
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Jeez I can understand not liking a billionaire and their product, but are you okay?
I saw no false statements here.
Why do you ask that? Whenever Musk gets mentioned (or any billionaire for that matter) similar words immediately spring to mind. Most people I know also feel this way too. Are YOU ok for not feeling this way?
I guess I’m just out of the loop. The most I know about musk is his ridiculous Twitter changes, naming his child aex12 or some crap like that, and shady EV range stuff. Can definitely see why people are saying he’s scum, but why is he being called a Nazi?
His indifference to the apartheid ontop of bragging about the family’s emerald mine (which hints at his emotional detachment from issues like genocide), reopening a Tesla factory in violation of health orders directly attributed to 450 covid cases, and his penchant for terminating people over opinions. Between the way he almost advocates for business priorities over basic human rights and his blatant fascism, some of his behaviors align with the hubris and fanaticism the Nazi party was known for. Cracking down on dissent, attempting to direct the flow of information, it’s almost as if we see how a modern Joseph Goebbels acts if he inherited the wealth of an apartheid emerald mine and pushed his own radical agendas with no regard for human life.
While Elon may not be as extreme as some of the worst people of the Nazi party, as in he didn’t throw millions of people in gas chambers, he seems to behave in a way that indicates he would do so without flinching or questioning it, if it continued to make a shit ton of money.
I usually think a lot of comments on here are over the top, but this one wasn’t that bad. Big companies get subsidies way too often.
I’m sad. Hug me?
Spotted the bootlicker
Teslas are boring. There are only 4 of them and they all look the same. (And the cybertruck is an abomination, sorry if you’re going to buy one; good luck surviving all the steel balls people will be throwing at you)
What a stupid take, but par for the r/technology course.
EDIT: The steel ball thing was terrible optics, granted, but that was also, like, the 5th time that ball was thrown at the window. Bullet-proof glass still spiderwebs when hit. Get over it.
No, they dropped steel balls onto separate glass pulled to the side, which didn’t break, then they decided to hurl steel balls at the prototype they had on stage. It broke the glass, twice. It’s on video, y’know?
but par doe the r/technology course.
Do you even know where you are?
Yep, r/tech… er… c/technology. Same thing.
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It was never worth the stupid value it was pumped up to. Why do you think Elon has been dumping so much of it.
The moment those Chinese EV startups enter the US market, Tesla will be in real trouble if they don’t have their product quality image problem fixed by then.
It’ll be like Detroit’s Big 3 automakers tanking when small fuel efficient Japanese cars landed in the 70s oil crisis.
Assuming those Chinese EV companies don’t have their own quality problems…
Chinese EVs absolutely have quality problems, but they are half the price. Tesla’s are sold at luxury prices with third rate QA.
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Tesla is already in trouble.
Hyundai Ioniq 5/6, Kia Ev6.
VW ID line.
Ford F150 Lightning.
Those are the things that will absolutely decimate Tesla’s market share. Known brands that can actually put together cars without basic issues like Panel gaps and paint issues.
Ones that reject the absolutely dangerous and moronic UX of putting everything onto a big screen instead of having physical buttons.
There’s already so many BYDs in Australia.
At $20,000 cheaper, it sure makes a lot of people not care about whatever bells and whistles the Tesla has.
china sucks worse then Tesla. Everything they build is cheap crap that falls apart. Last thing I’d ever do is buy some pos from china
They’re already in the states. Example: Volvo / Polestar
Big difference there. Volvo may be owned by a Chinese company but they’re made in the US and Europe (except the S90) and are designed by Swedish engineers. That’s like called Jaguars and Land Rovers Indian since they’re owned by Tata.
The cars that GP are referring to are entirely designed and built in China.
Elon Musk financed about $20bn into the Twitter purchase by selling Tesla stock.
despite the 200b drop in tesla, those 20bn probably still would be worth more than the Twitter stocks he owns now.
Twitter is a money pit circling the drain.
I’m pretty sure that dumpster fire is already part way into the drain but just doesn’t know it yet
I dont get how this is news. Teslas market cap was already higher than all the other car makers combined while only producing a fraction of the vehicles. Everyone knew that this stock wasnt a value stock. Where is the news
ELON BAD
Yes, but not sarcastically.
Agreed.
They went to the stock chart, picked the latest peak, and wrote the article of doom. It’s down 20% a year ago, but up 20% for the last 6 months, and up 119% YTD.
Not that Tesla doesn’t have its ills or seems to be stagnating, but picking points in a chart is a feeble argument.
That 119% is based on the lower peak you cherry picked, you just did exactly what you complained the article did.
No… TSLA was at 108.10 on 1/3. TSLA closed today at 236.86.
So from the beginning of the year to today (meaning year to date), the stock price is up by 119%. That’s not an arbitrary measurement. YTD is used all the time.
And so is using the value at the same date last year. Both are really commonly used but display a really different picture.
Cherry picking is not even about if it’s commonly used or not, it’s about using a specific data point to convey the message you want to.
A random time at a one year point isn’t commonly used. You compare starts and finishes of quarters YOY, not a random Tuesday YOY
1 year charts are really common and use the first/last comparison as well as the 52 weeks range.
YTD is a pretty common way to look at stocks and isn’t really cherry picking
Maybe anecdotal but I bought a Kia EV6 over a Tesla because of Musk and CarPlay support. I know I can’t be the only one that took that into consideration.
There was a time when I wanted a Tesla, before Musk went altright…
It might face a bumpy road but the reality is the core reason for the drop is the amount of stock musk has sold to cover his idiotic decisions recently
200 b-b-b-b-billion…!
Still up 1,000% over 5 years…plenty of room to fall
Where’s my cybertruck already?!?!
