Basically I am looking for a messaging platform like signal or? but with anonymous signup, perfect forward secrecy, capable of video chat, sending photos the usual uses in today’s life. But with a panic button. So that any party member could use said button to wipe all other members devices of any data instantly inside the messaging app. So if one member gets compromised, or lost their device, stolen device ect, any other member could wipe all chats, call log, and any other data strictly inside the messaging client instantly for everyone involved. Disolving the group like it never existed rendering the data unrecoverable. Amazons Wickr used to have most of these features but it is being discontinued December 2023 and who trusts amazon with their data. Does something like this exist? Sorry if I’m not explaining it well I’ll do my best to clarify and update this post. I am not trying to delete the whole device. Just the data inside the messaging app. If that does not exist. What about a separate app that could delete the entire messaging platform from the device when triggered. Assume all necessary requirements are met and this is for daily use. Between a group of trusted parties.
Updated wording to clarify the objective as replies where getting misunderstood.
You can never guarantee that other client’s data will be deleted. Assume that once your data gets sent, it can potentially be archived forever.
I understand your point of view. I share that philosophy to some degree. However nothing is a guarantee. But a high degree of certainty is achievable. But that doesn’t answer my question. Is there a messaging platform with a panic button that deletes the chat log and call logs from all user involved which can be triggered from any member.
Edit wording and update. This got downvoted because of a misinterpretation of what I was saying when I said high degree of certainty. All I meant was this isn’t supposed to a fool proof blanket feature and the world doesn’t run on absolutes of course. For instance signal works with a high degree of certainty that youll be secure. I was conveying its highly probable this feature under correct parameters would function correctly. Simply a step in the chain of failsafes. None the less. Thanks for your replies.
High degree of certainty
I wouldn’t agree with that. Whats stopping the other user screenshotting it? Taking a photo with another device? Or even simply disconnecting from the network so the device can’t even receive the “kill switch command”?
Doesn’t signal do that? I thought they had a wipe as messages are sent like snapchat where if you leave and go back, they’re gone
They have ephemeral messaging where one can set a timer to delete a message when it is read or from the time it was sent. But that isn’t always so easy to gauge with life. Often times a chat log is needed when people don’t check it often or right away. So the group must set a long timer like 24h ect ect. It’s customizable. But if a group members device gets lost or stolen ect. It is of no use. Signal by default stores all call logs in the app. Even if the ephemeral timer is short. Call logs require manual deletion and the group is still formed showing who was in that group but the chat will be empty. Edit was wording.
Often times a chat log is needed when people don’t check it often or right away.
I think the timer on each device starts from when the person who has the devices sees the message.
So if you send the message and the timer is 5 minutes, the message on your account (on all of your devices) will be deleted in 5 minutes from now, while the recipient will first see the message (maybe in an hour) and then after 5 minutes it will be deleted from their devices too.
I think that’s per conversation so you have to remember to set it.
It is per conversation but ephemeral messaging is not the same as a panic button. It does not serve the same function or purpose. Which doesn’t answer my question.
You can use matrix/element and if someone loses her phone, you can remove her from the room. The room will disappear from the other phone if it’s connected to the internet
I’ve been interested in looking at matrix due to its decentralyzed nature, and self host capability. But as much as I love to self host certain things. Self hosting isn’t always the shining example its portrayed as. That comes with its own security/privacy flaws. I will do some reading on matrix and learn about the features. Thanks for shedding some light on the actual topic at hand.
Edit for matrix info which can be found here for those wanting to learn more. -> https://matrix.org
You don’t have to selfhost. You can use anyone’s server. It’s all e2e. The social graph may be visible. Selfhosting is easy. Look for an install with docker.
Will do thanks. I don’t care about social graph being visible so long as there isn’t identifiable info during sign up. I’d much rather self host as needed. But what if matrix was self hosted on a hostile network. Under VPN from both sides. Say matrix was running from a hotel WiFi. How would one secure the service.
I don’t care about social graph being visible so long as there isn’t identifiable info during sign up. well said
you can also look into hosted services like EMS but I don’t know if you have to provide identifiable info.
But what if matrix was self hosted on a hostile network.
it’s all encrypted on the client -> e2e. even if it was http and no SSL
Say matrix was running from a hotel WiFi.
you have to provide a domain, I’m not sure how easy it would be to run it without and only locally on a LAN. IT’s possible but the experience wont be good. you also can’t federate. It’s much easier to use a hosted server.
How would one secure the service.
the same way like you’d do it with a publicly exposed host.
BUT I think I’d go with p2p matrix before going the LAN route.
Here’s a p2p matrix built https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1uK_BcHGiAYHkN6OAA7P73obAquwShRg5
look into the matrix room for more info p2p:matrix.org.
Using Signal with disappearing messages set to a really short time is probably the closest thing you can get. You can use a VOIP number from Cloaked behind a VPN to sign up anonymously.
First things first, there is no app like you describe. You have to take my word for it. Let’s say a certain country’s law enforcement might be very interested in taking to me if it knew role in certain events.
I examined many messaging and chat platforms, and the closest to what you’re asking for are custom Telegram clients that go a longer way to ensure that TG’s local data gets deleted properly (by default it doesn’t, easy peasy to get data from the local DB, half cleansed chats from 6 months ago pop up in exports or even the UI, etc).”, has a built in double bottom for accounts, etc. An example of what I am talking about is here: https://github.com/wrwrabbit (check the repos yourself).
Secondly, you must understand that when the law enforcement seizes a phone, upon initial quick examination (sometimes using brutality to force you to unlock it), they will shut it down to ensure it is not connected to the Internet. And then criminalists will use a special black box device sold by an Israeli cybersec firm (its name always escapes me, but I think the product might be called Pegasus) to extract all data for offline analysis.
So thirdly, you must not rely on any app that conditionally removes data from a device. You must not entrust your well-being to it. Which leaves you basically the only choice: only ephemeral messaging capabilities which are available only when you are in the app, through the server over which you have full control.
Or your messaging sessions must take place only when you’re in a secure location. And even then you should have a “wipe all button” in case the police come after you unexpectedly.
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Man just settle down that what you are asking for is not available on the market off the shelf.
It’s probably not an open discussion to talk about your actual scenarios.
Briar has that.
Its my understanding through some quick reading briar doesn’t have a built in panic button. But briar can be configured inside ripple which is similar to what I am looking for. But ripple only triggered by the device user. I am looking for a panic button which can be triggered from outside the device. Brair is only for android as well. While I despise apple, everyone else is drinking the koolaid. When the owner doesn’t have their device, compromised, lost, stolen, ect the device user can’t possibly trigger ripple, its not designed that way. Ripple is very nice though. I’ve used it. But doesn’t fit for the use case I’m asking about.
Check out https://gitlab.com/Nulide/findmydevice But it will delete evrrything, I think.
This is actually a really nice project. I will follow this to see how it works. However, this doesn’t follow the original scenario. Close but its only capable of factory resetting the device. Which is nice and useful under some situations. But it does not follow the original scenario. The only next best alternative is something like remote desktop. But that is very overkill and quite finnicky. Doesn’t solve the problem.
