Kamala Harris' first stop on the "107 Days" book tour was interrupted multiple times Wednesday night by protesters denouncing Israel’s war in Gaza, but the former vice president pressed on with calm.
people made it clear that supporting genocide was a line they wouldn’t cross, this was apparent even without the polls. how are we still blaming voters when the dems still refused to adjust position? they chose Israel over winning, that’s completely on them.
Yeah it’s bullshit. I voted third party because dems decided Israel is worth supporting. But let’s be mathematically accurate here.
Even if all the people who DID vote that did not vote republican had voted for the democrat, there would not have been enough electoral college influence to affect the outcome.
You would have needed more non-voters to vote. But a non-voter then was probably a never-voter. There are people that exist who simply don’t care one way or the other who is in charge and you can’t convince those people to go vote. Sure you can try, but in the end it’s the people who did vote who get what they voted for.
Regardless of all of that I find the “you should have voted democrat” argument to be exceptionally stupid. The democrat party is backing a government that I find to be morally reprehensible, as do most Americans, what should have happened is those who were saying “yeah it’s bad but I’m still gonna vote dem” should have just voted for a third party. Why vote against your interests?
All the options were against my interest. So I voted for what was least harmful for my interests. It’s a shit choice where I personally didn’t get what I wanted out of a candidate, but it’s not all about me.
So you don’t care at all about what Trump is doing right now. You don’t care that trans people are being explicitly targeted by the federal government.
That’s a weird way to interpret what I said. I care very much about what the current administration is doing. I care very much about my trans friends and the trans community. I’m very aware how things currently are.
My point is simply that it is illogical to blame people who voted third party. Because mathematically even if every single person who did vote third party voted for the democrat the Republican Party still would have won the election.
Democrats want to win? Run on a platform that is actually popular. Don’t support people like Hakeem Jeffries and Kamala Harris who talk down to their would be constituents. Don’t support people like John fetterman who is basically just a Republican posing as a democrat.
So, they refused to support genocide (a position, to be clear, that I agree with) by taking an action (voting third party) or inaction (not voting) that would clearly, and obviously, give a candidate who supported genocide a higher probability of not just winning, but being supported by others with the same opinion?
Voters were put in an invidious position and there were no good options, but there was one option that was clearly worse in every way, and they either directly or indirectly chose to support him.
The genocide was going to happen whichever of those two was in the White House, although Harris maybe seemed a little less likely to give them carte-blanche to go as extreme as they have. From that perspective it was a hobson’s choice, but many other things would have been different.
Do you support having the U.S. millitary being sent in to U.S. cities as a show of force? Do you support denying women access to vital healthcare? Do you support reducing or elliminating vaccination programmes? I’m guessing not, so then your have to ask yourself whether it is better to support the candidate who would not do those things, despite their position on Israel, or to abstain so you can say you didn’t support genocide, despite the fact doing so would do nothing to change that outcome, and increased the chance of the other undesireable outcomes?
As I said before, this should not have been the choice put in front of voters, but it was, and each member of the electorate had to make a choice, support a bad candidate or increase the chance of a worse one winning. Be mad about that. Fight to change it. Support candidates who oppose it, from the most local level, up to the highest level. It looks like there are some better candidates trying to push through now, the democrat party will probably fight to keep them down, so everyobe who wants better needs to push for the new candidates. Support those candidates any way you feel is right, but once it comes down to the ballot, make your chouce based on their whole position, not just one strand that is the same as the other guy’s.
The genocide was going to happen whichever of those two was in the White House
Right, you don’t give a shit about the genocide, you just wanted more comfort domestically, and you didn’t want to have to deal with full blown fascism at home. It’s an understandable (and cowardly) position, but the least you can do is own it and stop pretending to have a moral standing in this, you just wanted your normal life to continue, and Trump threatened that.
No, they don’t support the things you listed, which is why they didn’t vote for Trump. You support genocide and illegal drone strikes and kids in cages at the border and everything else that came with Kamala’s promise of most lethal military, and you voted for it.
There is a war of extermination because israel get billions of dollars every years, only fools think that Harris or any other candidate would have stopped aids and arms to Israel . I don’t care about all the BS and deflection you used on your comment
As I said, unfortunately, that was going to happen whichever one got into the White House. You could not affect that outcome with your vote. You could affect a lot of other outcomes though. The question (and it’s a genuine question, although I think you and I probably have different answers to it) is whether, given that you couldn’t change the genocide, you should vote based on those other issues, or whether you should abstain by not voting, or voting third party.
When you spew this BS you should stop pretending that you ever cared about Palestinians getting exterminated . Palestinians lives are so insignificant for you that you think oppressed minorities in the USA is more terrible than people actually dying, hospitals and schools are destroyed, a million of people living in starvation
The idea that Harris lost because of her position toward the genocide is just BS that make some people feel better. Foreign affair was the 7th most important issue for American only 2% cared about it. That include both Palestine and Ukraine. The poll did not even mention among those who voted on the issue of Palestine how many support Palestinians and how many support Israelis.
If all third party voters which is the position i support voted for Harris she would have still lost so at the end of the day, Harris and trump voters are all responsible for the genocide. Also Harris being bad at PR for almost all the issues along with trump and his voters are the people who are responsible for what is happening to minorities and immigrants
So you sat on the sideline because of an issue that no one cared about and wasn’t going to change anyway and now we have masked ICE agents grabbing people off the streets and sending them to third world hell holes, the military deployed to US cities, and we’re making preventable diseases great again while trying to erase LGBT folks.
You should stop pretending that you ever cared about any of that.
Again harris is the only one responsible for her loss and not anti genocide and anti occupation and i don’t care about how other don’t care about gaza, i care about a population getting exterminated like any decent person should unlike who think palestinian lives are worthless
ICE agents grabbing people off the streets and sending them to third world hell holes
Are LGBTQ and deported imigrants getting bombed and starved to death. You keep showing again and again that palestinian lives are worthless
You fucking enabled this. Own it
I am not even american and i supported the people who cared about all issues by voting for third parties whom has no effect on the election result. So i didn’t enable anything
Harris lost because of her stupidity. She enabled it. Own it.
Donald Trump secured a clear victory in the 2024 presidential election, but some online posts claimed Kamala Harris would have won several key states if not for ballots cast for third-party candidates. This misrepresents available data – preliminary totals show that even with all the non-Trump votes in the seven biggest battlegrounds, the vice president would not have secured an Electoral College win.
Seems that a bunch of people here struggling to reconcile their choice to support genocide even though their candidate didn’t win in the end. Now they want to lash out at everyone criticizing genocide and blame these people for their own personal decision by fabricating a nonsense narrative about what happened.
By giving Trump an easier path to victory you not only did more harm to Gaza than Harris would have (you can pressure those in your coalition; you can’t really pressure those in the opposition) you ALSO helped him rise to power to do everything he’s doing now.
It’s fucking pathetic that you people keep shoving your heads into the sand and pretending you’re some kind of moral paragons when you literally sacrificed trans people and immigrants to do nothing to help Gaza whatsoever. At least we acknowledge that Harris was still bad for Gaza.
How did/am I giving Trump an easier path to victory? I didn’t put these words in Harris’ mouth. She gave Trump a shortcut to the presidency and I’m just pointing that out.
The only people burying their heads in the sand are the people defending the DNC, who’ve done this three elections in a row despite losing nearly every single one. They refuse to change even if it means handing the entire government over to the Republicans. Its almost as if this is all intentional as they continue to give Republicans everything they want at every turn.
How many people decided not to vote? As I mentioned, it wasn’t just third party voters, but also those that chose not to vote. Also, to be clear, voters should not have been put in that position in the first place. However, they were put in that position, and given that there were only two possible outcomes to the presidential election, there really was only one sane choice to make. Unfortunately many chose a different one.
How many people don’t vote because they’re stupid or lazy? How many people don’t vote because they’re impaired? There’s a lot of old people walking around who haven’t voted their entire lives because they think, possibly correctly, that it’s a load of shit. It’s a nebulous number. Well, I voted. You started this tirade to attach third party voters. The non-voter is your bailey, “anyone who didn’t vote for Kamala” is your motte. I didn’t vote for Kamala because she openly and unwaveringly signaled that her policy was the same as Joe Biden’s. The policy in question is genocide. I don’t really give a shit what you or anybody else thinks about it, except to point out to onlookers the logical fallacies in the arguments you use.
You intended to take a principaled stand, and I would commend you on that, but unfortunately it functionally meant that you chose not to support the candidate that would have done less awful stuff. It’s a miserable choice to be faced with, but it is what was in front of the electorate. Be mad about that, work to make sure it doesn’t happen again, but when the decision comes, the responsible option is surely to look at harm reduction.
Yes, lots of people didn’t vote for a whole variety of reasons. Those who voted for third party candidates with no chance of winning effectively also didn’t vote. With a better system that wouldn’t be the case. Agajn, be mad about that, work to change it, and support candidates that want to change it, but when the vote comes take in to account whether they can win and what you can do to reduce reduce harm if they can’t.
People who knew what would happen if your party didn’t abandon its support for genocide warned you what would happen.
Centrist democrats thought they knew better and charged right ahead with a shit candidate with a single morally reprehensible policy and a timid little bunch of promises no one could trust after the previous 4 years of broken promises.
You were wrong. You lost. You should have listened. You have the opportunity to listen now. You don’t want to. You want to blame people who don’t support the only policy the party won’t back down on.
The problem is, it’s not really the dems who lost, it’s everyone who isn’t a fascist. The party as a whole isn’t really affected by this (and that’s a huge problem), and most of the candidates who lost their elections are part of the party and will just carry on. The way that changes is through pushing for, and supporting, candidates at all levels who support a better agenda, not at the ballot box.
The whole system sucks; be mad about it, push to change it, but I don’t think that those who voted third party, or chose not to vote think this, overall, is better than the results of Harris being in the White House, and they, combined, could have changed this outcome.
Ultimately this election is done, the situation is what it is, and, with a bit of luck, there’ll be elections next year and in '28 where some of this can start to be undone. I wish I was more confident in that.
people made it clear that supporting genocide was a line they wouldn’t cross, this was apparent even without the polls. how are we still blaming voters when the dems still refused to adjust position? they chose Israel over winning, that’s completely on them.
Yeah it’s bullshit. I voted third party because dems decided Israel is worth supporting. But let’s be mathematically accurate here.
Even if all the people who DID vote that did not vote republican had voted for the democrat, there would not have been enough electoral college influence to affect the outcome.
You would have needed more non-voters to vote. But a non-voter then was probably a never-voter. There are people that exist who simply don’t care one way or the other who is in charge and you can’t convince those people to go vote. Sure you can try, but in the end it’s the people who did vote who get what they voted for.
Regardless of all of that I find the “you should have voted democrat” argument to be exceptionally stupid. The democrat party is backing a government that I find to be morally reprehensible, as do most Americans, what should have happened is those who were saying “yeah it’s bad but I’m still gonna vote dem” should have just voted for a third party. Why vote against your interests?
All the options were against my interest. So I voted for what was least harmful for my interests. It’s a shit choice where I personally didn’t get what I wanted out of a candidate, but it’s not all about me.
Yo same!
So you don’t care at all about what Trump is doing right now. You don’t care that trans people are being explicitly targeted by the federal government.
That’s a weird way to interpret what I said. I care very much about what the current administration is doing. I care very much about my trans friends and the trans community. I’m very aware how things currently are.
My point is simply that it is illogical to blame people who voted third party. Because mathematically even if every single person who did vote third party voted for the democrat the Republican Party still would have won the election.
Democrats want to win? Run on a platform that is actually popular. Don’t support people like Hakeem Jeffries and Kamala Harris who talk down to their would be constituents. Don’t support people like John fetterman who is basically just a Republican posing as a democrat.
So, they refused to support genocide (a position, to be clear, that I agree with) by taking an action (voting third party) or inaction (not voting) that would clearly, and obviously, give a candidate who supported genocide a higher probability of not just winning, but being supported by others with the same opinion?
Voters were put in an invidious position and there were no good options, but there was one option that was clearly worse in every way, and they either directly or indirectly chose to support him.
You can’t claim to oppose genocide at the same time vote for one of the parties who gives billions to israel to commit genocide.
The genocide was going to happen whichever of those two was in the White House, although Harris maybe seemed a little less likely to give them carte-blanche to go as extreme as they have. From that perspective it was a hobson’s choice, but many other things would have been different.
Do you support having the U.S. millitary being sent in to U.S. cities as a show of force? Do you support denying women access to vital healthcare? Do you support reducing or elliminating vaccination programmes? I’m guessing not, so then your have to ask yourself whether it is better to support the candidate who would not do those things, despite their position on Israel, or to abstain so you can say you didn’t support genocide, despite the fact doing so would do nothing to change that outcome, and increased the chance of the other undesireable outcomes?
As I said before, this should not have been the choice put in front of voters, but it was, and each member of the electorate had to make a choice, support a bad candidate or increase the chance of a worse one winning. Be mad about that. Fight to change it. Support candidates who oppose it, from the most local level, up to the highest level. It looks like there are some better candidates trying to push through now, the democrat party will probably fight to keep them down, so everyobe who wants better needs to push for the new candidates. Support those candidates any way you feel is right, but once it comes down to the ballot, make your chouce based on their whole position, not just one strand that is the same as the other guy’s.
Right, you don’t give a shit about the genocide, you just wanted more comfort domestically, and you didn’t want to have to deal with full blown fascism at home. It’s an understandable (and cowardly) position, but the least you can do is own it and stop pretending to have a moral standing in this, you just wanted your normal life to continue, and Trump threatened that.
No, they don’t support the things you listed, which is why they didn’t vote for Trump. You support genocide and illegal drone strikes and kids in cages at the border and everything else that came with Kamala’s promise of most lethal military, and you voted for it.
There is a war of extermination because israel get billions of dollars every years, only fools think that Harris or any other candidate would have stopped aids and arms to Israel . I don’t care about all the BS and deflection you used on your comment
As I said, unfortunately, that was going to happen whichever one got into the White House. You could not affect that outcome with your vote. You could affect a lot of other outcomes though. The question (and it’s a genuine question, although I think you and I probably have different answers to it) is whether, given that you couldn’t change the genocide, you should vote based on those other issues, or whether you should abstain by not voting, or voting third party.
When you spew this BS you should stop pretending that you ever cared about Palestinians getting exterminated . Palestinians lives are so insignificant for you that you think oppressed minorities in the USA is more terrible than people actually dying, hospitals and schools are destroyed, a million of people living in starvation
The idea that Harris lost because of her position toward the genocide is just BS that make some people feel better. Foreign affair was the 7th most important issue for American only 2% cared about it. That include both Palestine and Ukraine. The poll did not even mention among those who voted on the issue of Palestine how many support Palestinians and how many support Israelis.
If all third party voters which is the position i support voted for Harris she would have still lost so at the end of the day, Harris and trump voters are all responsible for the genocide. Also Harris being bad at PR for almost all the issues along with trump and his voters are the people who are responsible for what is happening to minorities and immigrants
So you sat on the sideline because of an issue that no one cared about and wasn’t going to change anyway and now we have masked ICE agents grabbing people off the streets and sending them to third world hell holes, the military deployed to US cities, and we’re making preventable diseases great again while trying to erase LGBT folks.
You should stop pretending that you ever cared about any of that.
You fucking enabled this. Own it.
Again harris is the only one responsible for her loss and not anti genocide and anti occupation and i don’t care about how other don’t care about gaza, i care about a population getting exterminated like any decent person should unlike who think palestinian lives are worthless
Are LGBTQ and deported imigrants getting bombed and starved to death. You keep showing again and again that palestinian lives are worthless
Harris lost because of her stupidity. She enabled it. Own it.
https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36LT4WK
Here’s more evidence that these claims are bullshit.
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/26/nx-s1-5447450/trump-2024-election-non-voters-coalition
Seems that a bunch of people here struggling to reconcile their choice to support genocide even though their candidate didn’t win in the end. Now they want to lash out at everyone criticizing genocide and blame these people for their own personal decision by fabricating a nonsense narrative about what happened.
You have to be trying to be this obtuse.
By giving Trump an easier path to victory you not only did more harm to Gaza than Harris would have (you can pressure those in your coalition; you can’t really pressure those in the opposition) you ALSO helped him rise to power to do everything he’s doing now.
It’s fucking pathetic that you people keep shoving your heads into the sand and pretending you’re some kind of moral paragons when you literally sacrificed trans people and immigrants to do nothing to help Gaza whatsoever. At least we acknowledge that Harris was still bad for Gaza.
How did/am I giving Trump an easier path to victory? I didn’t put these words in Harris’ mouth. She gave Trump a shortcut to the presidency and I’m just pointing that out.
The only people burying their heads in the sand are the people defending the DNC, who’ve done this three elections in a row despite losing nearly every single one. They refuse to change even if it means handing the entire government over to the Republicans. Its almost as if this is all intentional as they continue to give Republicans everything they want at every turn.
How many people decided not to vote? As I mentioned, it wasn’t just third party voters, but also those that chose not to vote. Also, to be clear, voters should not have been put in that position in the first place. However, they were put in that position, and given that there were only two possible outcomes to the presidential election, there really was only one sane choice to make. Unfortunately many chose a different one.
How many people don’t vote because they’re stupid or lazy? How many people don’t vote because they’re impaired? There’s a lot of old people walking around who haven’t voted their entire lives because they think, possibly correctly, that it’s a load of shit. It’s a nebulous number. Well, I voted. You started this tirade to attach third party voters. The non-voter is your bailey, “anyone who didn’t vote for Kamala” is your motte. I didn’t vote for Kamala because she openly and unwaveringly signaled that her policy was the same as Joe Biden’s. The policy in question is genocide. I don’t really give a shit what you or anybody else thinks about it, except to point out to onlookers the logical fallacies in the arguments you use.
You intended to take a principaled stand, and I would commend you on that, but unfortunately it functionally meant that you chose not to support the candidate that would have done less awful stuff. It’s a miserable choice to be faced with, but it is what was in front of the electorate. Be mad about that, work to make sure it doesn’t happen again, but when the decision comes, the responsible option is surely to look at harm reduction.
Yes, lots of people didn’t vote for a whole variety of reasons. Those who voted for third party candidates with no chance of winning effectively also didn’t vote. With a better system that wouldn’t be the case. Agajn, be mad about that, work to change it, and support candidates that want to change it, but when the vote comes take in to account whether they can win and what you can do to reduce reduce harm if they can’t.
People who knew what would happen if your party didn’t abandon its support for genocide warned you what would happen.
Centrist democrats thought they knew better and charged right ahead with a shit candidate with a single morally reprehensible policy and a timid little bunch of promises no one could trust after the previous 4 years of broken promises.
You were wrong. You lost. You should have listened. You have the opportunity to listen now. You don’t want to. You want to blame people who don’t support the only policy the party won’t back down on.
The problem is, it’s not really the dems who lost, it’s everyone who isn’t a fascist. The party as a whole isn’t really affected by this (and that’s a huge problem), and most of the candidates who lost their elections are part of the party and will just carry on. The way that changes is through pushing for, and supporting, candidates at all levels who support a better agenda, not at the ballot box.
The whole system sucks; be mad about it, push to change it, but I don’t think that those who voted third party, or chose not to vote think this, overall, is better than the results of Harris being in the White House, and they, combined, could have changed this outcome.
Ultimately this election is done, the situation is what it is, and, with a bit of luck, there’ll be elections next year and in '28 where some of this can start to be undone. I wish I was more confident in that.
Everyone who isn’t a fascist lost when the “good” party supported genocide.
Whoosh.
msybaubibyabtr