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It’s going to take years to recover, decades even, if ever.
Nothing I hear from my friends in Canada or Europe say otherwise. They’re all willing to dig in their heels and avoid this country like the plague.
Indefinitely.
Even if we elect (heh, like there’ll be real elections going forward) someone else, this stain will stay with us for generations until people forget or forgive, and that’s going to take time, if it ever happens in our lifetimes.
Yes, it’s this. It takes one dick at the top to issue the orders but after he’s dead or voted out we have to reconcile with the thousands of workers who executed the orders, and the millions that sat at home cheering them on.
No thanks, headed to countries that want me to visit not just my dollars.
America doesn’t even want its own citizens, just their dollars. It’s a shit country.
The Biden administration were too cowardly to do that “reconciliation,” so here we are.
IF we get another chance, and we will, one way or another, we won’t make that mistake again. If they manage to regain power AGAIN, it will be much much worse, so we have to avoid it by cracking down with such tremendous ferocity, they will NEVER dare to try it again.
None ever liked dealing with US immigrations anyway.
Yeah I’m coming into your country to go to Disneyland, of course I’m not a terrorist, what a stupid question. Yeah, feel free to drop my iPad, it only cost 2 weeks of earnings, I’m sure I don’t mind.
It’s going to take years to recover, decades even, if ever.
People were vacationing in Japan and Germany practically before the smoke cleared. There’s a few very wild stories of Americans trying to vacation in Afghanistan and Iraq shortly after the US invaded. Trumpism is a bulwark against a tidal wave of foreigners looking to come to America to party. It will be as effective, long term, as his Wall was in keeping out migrant labor.
Even if we elect (heh, like there’ll be real elections going forward) someone else, this stain will stay
FFS, North Korea has a tour guide program - practically by way of attrition. Simply easier for them to formalize the process rather than deal with all the adventure seeking lunatics trying to get smuggled in through the back country.
Las Vegas isn’t any more stained than Dubai or Cairo. The only difference is that the UAE and the Egypt Dictatorship actively court tourists, while the current American DHS seems hell bent on keeping wealthy tourists out.
There’s a big difference between adventure seekers, and regular tourists. The difference isn’t the existence of tourists because sure, there will always be tourists coming to America - the difference is the number of tourists.
There’s a big difference between adventure seekers, and regular tourists.
Mostly by degrees. But piping your adventure seekers through a managed tour program tends to curb the number of people who die trying to scale a mountain the wrong time of year with no search and rescue on hand.
the difference is the number of tourists
The US does a great job of heavily subsidizing its tourist industry, making a vacation to somewhere like Vegas or Miami or Lower Manhattan far cheaper than it has any right to be.
It’s difficult to subsidize vacations to Vegas or Miami enough to offset the risk of being stuffed in a holding cell at the border.
The North Korean tour program is much more a propoganda play than anything to with them acknowledging that people are going to try to sneak in anyway. It very intentionally only shows tourists the most inoffensive parts of the country.
The North Korean tour program is much more a propoganda play
You could just as easily say that of any city sponsored tour of Washington DC (or, really, any major municipality with a budget for self-promotion). FFS, that’s the core of Israeli Birthright trips.
The difference is that North Koreans generally didn’t want any kind of tourism for decades. They were openly hostile to it in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Modern touring of Pyongyang is a concession to deal with the huge number of foreigners desperately curious to see inside. You’re not visiting because the NK government has tricked you into coming to visit. You’re visiting because you’re captivated by all the crazy stories you’ve heard from SK, Japan, and the US, and you want to evaluate them firsthand.
It very intentionally only shows tourists the most inoffensive parts of the country.
Coming from a country in which we are regularly told everyone in North Korea is on the verge of starving to death at any given moment, the idea that you can walk through the country and not see lines of emaciated homeless children stretching to the horizon is perception-shattering.
Naturally, the US response is to insist our propaganda is true and the Koreans are just trying to trick you into believing otherwise. Even being on the ground and staring at crowds of people living normal lives isn’t enough to shake some people’s convictions. And that leads the more manic folks to try and sneak off, to hassle locals, and to shake them down until they reveal the horrifying truth you’ve been told is just on the other side of what you’ve been told is a crude Potemkin display.
What really gets me is the YouTube videographiers who have to literally walk up to storefront and push on the walls to prove they’re not cardboard, to sample the food to prove its not all a wax display, and to grill locals to prove they aren’t actors. Even then, the comments sections are full of people shouting “Fake! Fake! Fake!”
That whole surreal stubborn disbelief - that North Korea is real and not just an elaborate Kubrick contrived sound stage - is a big part of what brings in thousands of tourists every year to see a country that’s… kinda boring on any close inspection.
Wow, talk about bullshit propaganda. Yeah, go to NK and try and venture away from the “allowed” areas or take video of things you aren’t explicitly show and see what happens. NK visits are ALL propaganda.
you mean like all those youTube videos where literally nothing happens?
Yeah, go to NK and try and venture away from the “allowed” areas
Go to DC and try it. Tell ICE I said "Eat Shit, while they’ve got boots on your neck.
The difference between a tour of DC and a tour of Pyongyang is that you are allowed to just leave the city and go where ever you want in the US, so long as access isn’t restricted because it’s a literal military base. Thing’s aren’t great everywhere in the US, just as with every country, but at least the US doesn’t have a state censorship machine preventing people from talking about the less well off people (well, not yet anyway).
The difference between a tour of DC and a tour of Pyongyang is that you are allowed to just leave the city and go where ever you want in the US
Tell that to the DC paramilitary currently snatching people off the streets.
at least the US doesn’t have a state censorship machine
:-|
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
“I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says.
“Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.”
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”
Most countries are kinda boring on close inspection.
No shit. The whole “potentially being arrested and thrown into a concentration camp because you tweeted something the president doesn’t like” thing kinda puts a damper on tourism.
Who wants to go to all the trouble of planning an expensive vacation, pay out a lot for tickets and hotels and such, only to get off the plane, and be refused entry because they are demanding to go through your social media?There goes your vacation, and your money.
Fuck it, if I’m European, we’re heading to Thailand or the Caribbean for the next few years.
do these experts get payed for these complex infos? any hiring?
duh. if congress does not act will last at least until 2030.
As a US citizen, good. Our government will just keep being assholes unless people shun them (by taking away their money).
Same position, shut this shit down, it is going to be painful living inside it but it is absolutely necessary.
Why would it? The problem is still there. Even if Trump was gone tomorrow the Republicans that put all this in motion would still be in charge.
It’s going to take a new government, several arrests, a change of the constitution so that this can never happen again, and at least 10 years of stability before the world trusts the US again.
Who the fuck thought it was going to improve after summer?
Wait until next summer when he is stoking riots in the streets of every American city so that he can declare Martial Law and suspend the mid-term election. I’m sure they’ll all want to come and watch that shit show.
Every month brings us closer to natural causes.
What is wrong with people from abroad who don’t want to be detained and cavity searched? In my day, this was the definition of a great vacation.
Good. This needs to happen. So the clueless can finally accept that the US isn’t the best. We as a people think we are the best fighters. We are really the biggest losers. Except perhaps for one shining moment right after WWII. Then we decided to become the worlds peacekeeper and have consistently lost every conflict since then.
Come on tell me those that disagree. Tell me one we won like we won in Germany and Japan. Where we ended up will allies instead of more enemies.
We are gonna lose this fight. The tourist can go anywhere in the world why would they come here?
uhhh yeah that’s what we’ve been saying
we’re not coming back. fuck you guys. give us a solid decade of excellent behaviour and make up for your threats to take us over, and we’ll consider thinking about making a plan to return
Spoiler alert, it will last at least a few more years, possibly longer. Trump and his gestapo have made it clear that the US is closed for business as long as he’s in charge. The next great depression is just getting started.
“As long as he’s in charge” and beyond. That orange clown proved the world that with the current political system in the US, no deal make sense. Every accord is useless, a visa means nothing. The first lunatic president can change the rules on a whim, it’s not safe to do business or even to travel to the US. Even if the current dictator is overthrown by a smart and sane person, without changing deeply all the political system, everything can disappear at the next election.
The more I live through it, the more I am buying into belief that history doesn’t repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes…
We are currently experiencing our own twist on the “Roaring ‘20s”, an not particularly looking forward to what the next next couple of decades will bring.
Nah, what we’re experiencing is more in line with the early 1930s. In Germany.
Not yet - Hyperinflation hasn’t yet started, but you’re getting there.
More like the 1930s.
Oh, you wish… things can still get a lot worse from here for a whole mess of us. There is still blood that the Top 0.1% have not yet squeezed from the stone.
Funnily enough, that popped up on my feed today also - I am not subscribed to that channel, nor have I seen any of his videos before today.
Gary Stevenson has a lot of kick-ass videos on the economy. I like this one about how to change things, in particular, but it is longer. Also, “Belle of the Ranch” has some of the best level headed factual news you won’t hear on the MSM…
Tourists could also go to North Korea, but for some reason it doesn’t draw crowds, I wonder why.
It’s appropriate that corporate barons in airlines, hotels and restaurant industries that have long funded Republicans for deregulation and union busting and poverty wages. They’re now getting the full side of the coin which includes:
- their chosen party destroying perceptions of safety and desirability to popular tourist destinations by claiming they are warzones while he deploys precious military resources to create said zones,
- their chosen party arresting, deporting and discouraging the employment base of hotels and restaurants. No one else is going to do the work.
- their chosen party doing incalculable damage to the reputation of the US higher education system and it’s reputation by removing science and academic freedom norms by trying to politicize science, admission and revoke the first amendment.
- their chosen party during travel into dystopian reality where social media accounts, your sexuality or your political beliefs determine how or whether you may be admitted to the US.
Airlines will be devastated with reduction in local (poverty wages, can’t afford flights) and international travelers. Hotels will suffer as they should. I hope restaurant owners are decimated.
Have the economy and society you voted for you greedy, selfish, disgusting fucks.
There are different factions of oligarchs. The Trump administration has been extremely generous to mass-market quack-cure hucksters, legacy media, purveyors of intrusive surveillance tech of all kinds, crypto con artists, religious and home-schooling snake-oil salesmen, venture capitalists, private equity weasels, private prisons and fossil-fuel extractors. They have been unhelpful and often hostile to health care, hospitality and travel, agriculture, science, education, and the renewable energy sector.
It really doesn’t matter. The oligarchs that weren’t installing Republican fascists were ratfucking the Democratic party. They are as responsible for Trump as anyone. When the whole economy became a scam, it was inevitable that the country would fall to a scam artist.
Whole list of things where the rules were put in for a reason, but people forgot the reasons, and now they want to get rid of them. Sometimes while calling GK Chesterton a conservative intellectual and forgetting about his fence analogy.
Why, yes, it was all shaving the sharpest edges off of capitalism. It was the only way this system could even possibly work, and they’re dismantling it.
the US higher education system and it’s reputation
While I wholeheartedly agree with your comment, I cannot help but notice the irony in that particular bit.
It’s similar to the irony of Google’s keyboard autocorrect inserting an error when the user knows better. I typed all that on mobile and even got bullets to format, I’m proud!
Oh, we’re not coming back.
We really don’t blame you
You should come over to Europe. We have nice food and democracy (in most places. Fuck Orban).
I don’t think Europe wants me, and the money it would take is likely ~15k? I will never have that much money in savings again, I briefly did when I was living with parents when I was younger but these days like… lol
Sounds nice, but I doubt I could replace the 13 wooded acres i own 60km from the nearest thing that has a right to call itself a city, and I value my seclusion.
Northern Europe is made up almost exclusively of forests and mountains. If you like warmer weather, you can buy an entire abandoned village in Portugal or Italy for pocket change.there are also extensive old growth Forrest’s all over central and eastern Europe.
But not live ther as getting a visa ia tricky :( you guys dont like immigrants either (i wanted to move from Australia)
Then why is every bartender from Maspalomas to Hammerfest Australian?
you can buy an entire abandoned village in Portugal or Italy for pocket change
Sure you can.
Starting to sound better
You might find something in Norway.
Sounds cold. I’m in the state of Georgia. I’ll stay home and fight the fascists as best as I can. Someone needs to.
Norway is a pretty long country. The north and inland are cold in the winter. But the south west coast is pretty hospitable year round. Norway is generally a lot warmer than you’d expect. I’m up in the arctic and currently have sunflowers growing on my balcony.
It’ll last as long as the current administration holds power
That would be a start yes. But who’s to say that the new government will be stable, America could swing back to the right at any point. The rest of the world would need decades of stability to be convinced.
Thats a risk we have to take. Politicians at all levels lie to get votes. Perhaps we should have a lottery-type setup that randomly assigns govt offices to a random member of the public, as in someone not actively seeking it and isnt prone to telling everyone what they want to hear
