Newsweek
It’s heartbreaking seeing shell shocked children covered in dust and blood or parents weeping for their dead kids. There is no sanctuary for these people. Then Israelis call them “human animals” while claiming to be the “most moral army in the world” without any sense of shame. They are depraved.
You saw the shell shocked kid? That was horrific. If you watch that video and still support Israel you are a sociopath. Here is the kid.
Its heart breaking. If they played these videos on national news rather than parroting “Israel’s right to defend itself” propaganda then this massacre would be stopped.
Or, we might find the so called “centrists” aren’t really that moderate after all.
Absolutely heartbreaking. And on the other side, there are IDF soldiers partying because they killed children. On the hills, there are Israeli citizens throwing watch parties of Palestinians’ houses being bombed. If an orthodox Jewish, Israeli journalist expresses basic empathy with Palestinians, other Israelis go surround his house and threaten him for being a decent human being. HOW are zionists victims of ANYTHING??? And to ward off any accusation of anti-semitism: this behavior has NOTHING to do with what Judaism actually says. No religion actually says this type of dehumanization is right. This has NOTHING to do with Judaism, it has everything to do with pure racism and colonialism. Nazism in short which, it seems, some Jewish people in Israel forgot everything about - and that’s the worst part.
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Got me. Now leave me alone and go back to watching football in memeville.
Edit: Better yet. Don’t focus on me and actually read the article posted.
I think they meant “if anyone watches that video and…”
“You” is used as a collective pronoun when directed at a group of people.
I think some of the reading-comprehension-challenged crowd would do well if we brought back youse as the plural of you.
We already have a word for that: Y’all!
“Y’all” too
It could help, but alongside all the 99+ existing ones I can not general comprehension would not change seen significant improvement.
I know, I was trying to point that out but now I read it, looks like I was implying that you’ve misused it :)
Yes, its quite obvious to everyone that has no power in the world.
With how often we, the United States, shove our fingers into every whisper of a conflict I’m shocked that we’re not only involved in this conflict (by proxy, not for reals, take that international courts) but somehow ended up on the wrong side of it. It’s like it wasn’t enough to just be helpless, we had to add a whole extra layer.
It’s really weird when considering the Ukraine situation. For a moment I thought US was just doing the right thing. Nope, they just are anti Russian, not necessarily pro Ukraine.
Use the opportunity to take this lesson to heart: the vast majority of governments only choose their geopolitical behavior depending on their own self-interest. The cases where countries sacrifice anything remotely significant for the sake of taking ethical decisions are rare and few. They will only change this attitude if the general public demands it to the point of them risking losing power.
Moral righteousness has never been a consideration, militarily speaking.
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Worth repeating that when American evangelical Christians support Israel, it’s because of they think it will bring about the literal end of the world, and to them that is a good thing. I assume that’s not Biden’s angle, but it’s certainly the angle of a significant portion of Republicans.
The only thing I think of with this conflict is the Doctor Who speech on war:
Because it’s not a game, Kate. This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it’s always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who’s going to die. You don’t know who’s children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they’re always going to have to do from the very beginning – sit down and talk!
A beautiful sentiment, but sometimes it’s about forcing people to sit and talk who wouldn’t otherwise do so. It’s rare, but the US civil war was an unfortunate necessity.
Everybody just needs to sit in a room and do Molly together. No war. Just massage.
I agree, there was a lot that could have been done to avoid it but humans (as a group) are stupid.
There’s just some lines that should not be crossed, genocide, slavery, etc. and when that happens it comes down to who has the bigger stick and can stomach the suffering.
I am not an expert by any means, what I am sure of is that there were opportunities for dialog but humans did what humans do best. They ‘othered’ the fuck out of each side and made sure that this was the only possible outcome.
Which is no problem for them! Since they’re going to be rewarded in the afterlife! So who cares that they just shit in the proverbial sandbox!? /s
Yes; Ultimately, there will be an agreement at the negotiation table.
But as long as there is a disagreement over where that final line will be drawn …
As long as one party thinks they can get a better result on the battlefield …
The fighting will continue.
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Legalize dueling when
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How quickly we forget history. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself come a villain.
I had a similar thought recently. Germans were a victim of WW1. Then became aggressors and the Jews were victims in WW2. Now Israel is the aggressor and Palestinians are the victims. Just a thought.
Great point. Seems we are still paying the price for old sins.
Well, this jewish, israeli (born, raised, and educated) holocaust professor, with decades of experience and many titles under his belt acquired specifically in the field of genocide and the Holocaust hasn’t seen what the armchair historians on the internet have to say.
Holocaust historians hate this one one trick.
I wonder if Isreal has gas chambers…I’d not be surprised.
Gazan population doubles in 2 decades: help! There’s a genocide!
What the jews got was the purposeful death of innocent civilians. Just watch jewish numbers in the world before and after WW2. What gazans get is a war. Yes, civilians die in wars, and that’s an awful thing. Israel should’ve done everything to prevent this war, but didn’t. Bibi has a lot to answer.
But comparing the Holocaust to gaza is just absurd. You can take a side in a conflict without baseless accusations, Israel has already a lot to answer to. But purposefully killing civilians? We’ve yet to see that from Israel, only from Hamas…
And there’s also genocide apologists like you
Could you enlighten me on what I said that wasn’t correct? Instead of throwing titles how about actually explaining your case?
Nobody owes you a “debate”. Thats what people like you always want, to waste peoples time dragging them into a pointless “debate” where you had no intention of arguing in good faith from the start. Its why the best way to deal with scum like you is to just tell you to fuck off, block you and then let you cry into the void about people not “debating” you.
Based.
Absolutely, some classic sealioning! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
No man, no one owes me anything, I just asked if you had anything better to say than just calling names which is just destructive. So yeah, I agree about the blocking part of me not wanting anything to do with someone who can’t even hear opinions who are contrary to his own, and just name calling them.
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And there’s also genocide apologists like you
Said the terrorist apologist
I know is hard for people with your brain power but you can be against the apartheid genocidal state of Israel, and support the jewish inocent people who have died.
You can also be against Hamas disgusting acts of terrorism, and support the Palestinian inocent people who have been suffering for 70 years.
Just make the world a favour and don’t reproduce.
Wow please describe my position to me while claiming I don’t have the “brain power” to hold it. You’re not enlightened.
You’re not enlightened.
Have you ever washed the dishes and for some reason you toch some slimy, wet, disgusting piece of food, and you cringe? That’s how this interaction feels for me, good day turd.
lmao yes, but the cringe of this post has taken its spot
I don’t think he’s calling the last two decades genocide, but he is calling the last two weeks genocide. The language is genocidal, refusing to allow Palestinians a way to escape is murderous, and the limited aid coming from Egypt won’t be enough to keep Palestinians afloat. If kept up, the blockade of necessary resources will kill more people in the coming months than the air strikes ever could.
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I agree the past 2 weeks are inhumane against Palestinians, but blaming it entirely on Israel is dishonest given they still have civilians kidnapped and probably tortured (not based on a tin foil hat, based on the bodies of dead Israelis).
I do believe they’ll let help come from Egypt before it gets catastrophic, because they also don’t want a humanitarian disaster to happen. That’ll only move more people towards Hamas, which is of course against their interests.
And about the language - not once have I heard an Israeli official calling the Palestinian people animals - only their leadership (which let’s face it - they are animals). And because Israel is a free state, and part of the free world, they’ll get backlash for saying anything of that nature. I just don’t think we’ll even come to that - since Israel just doesn’t wanna involve itself with Gaza at all besides destroying Hamas.
I didn’t blame Israel for Hamas killing civilians, I blamed them for letting hamas get so powerful that they could execute such a devastating attack.
Israel does not care about pushing civilians towards Hamas, as they have mostly done just that for the last few decades. They refused to support more moderate Palestinians forces, instead causing economic hardship for all Palestinians, while stealing territory from the West Bank where Hamas has less power. If they didn’t want a humanitarian crisis, they wouldn’t have blockaded essential resources. They demanded over a million people evacuate from half of Gaza in 24 hours, something that would be nearly impossible in even wealthy countries with functioning governments. Even if Gaza had a government willing to move those people, the request would still be impossible.
When the government originally said they were “fighting animals,” they did not specify Hamas. In fact, they were telling all Palestinians that they would be cut off from essentials. Bibi and his allies have been trying their hardest to make Israel a less free country, an explicit Jewish theocracy. The idea that the “free world,” would speak up is laughable when fascist parties are serious threats in every liberal democracy. The Republicans in the US have been even more explicitly genocidal against Palestinians than Israel’s government, dehumanizing all Muslims and inspiring hate crimes. It’s nothing new as they have been demanding trans people be banned from public life for the last few years. Most Democrats refuse to speak up enough, as they value their middle eastern ally way too much. The right wing in Israel want to steal Palestinian land and force the people into exile, as they have no sense of irony.
I agree about Israeli goverment being way too right wing, trying to take more Palestinian land. That just sucks, and it’s a worldwide trend of countries becoming less liberal.
And yeah Israel 100% messed up horribly about letting Hamas being so powerful. Bibi has so much to answer to and by his character he won’t and blame it on others.
And about the humanitarian crisis - let’s be real - nobody expected Gazans to clear the northen part in 24 hours - the IDF itself issued more warnings after that initial 24 hour one because of course they did - it’s ridiculous thinking otherwise. It’s been almost a week since then and they still haven’t invaded - plenty of time for evacuation. And blocking of resources is also over with Rafah crossing (about Israel’s support of food/water/electricity - it’s understandable why they don’t wanna spend their money giving them that right now…)
And about Israel not supporting more moderate Palestinian forces, I don’t know about that… The last time Israel supported the PA was the Oslo Accords which is wildly regarded in Israel as a good step for peace, and a very bad move for Israeli security - the second intifada has definitely been more deadly because of it.
But even after all of that - that’s just the current government - and unlike Hamas, they don’t control the whole state. There’s an opposition, there’s a separate military, a separate court… The extremists don’t have all the power. And hopefully after those events Israelis will realize they’re a danger not only to Palestinians, but for Israelis.
An Israeli historian and Holocaust scholar
Are you an expert? He is.
Nah, I’m just some dude with an opinion on the internet. I think that every country should have a right for proper defense, and proper safety for its citizens. And that includes Palestinians. But to think that the source for that defense should be Israel who are suffering their own casualties is not fair by the world. And Israel tbh is doing the bare minimum in Gaza (up until 2 weeks ago) which is definitely not good, but not as awful as a genocide.
After the events of Saturday tho, I can’t blame them for stopping that bare minimum of protection. They’re at war and can’t enjoy that luxury.
sure give as many weapons as you can to a government and people who are not ashamed and have proven over and over and over again that they can and will attack Israel and its citizens. I think the only solution here is to take them out of the land or make them all Israelis so they wont want to destroy themselves, but there’s not guarantee of that. The problem is very much with the government of the PLO and Hamas and the people should be given a choice to choose and alternatives Israel has never addresed reperations for palesitnians who lost their land during the 3 big wars. Of course, they dont need to do this, but will be a gesture of peace and reconciliation. On the other hand, this is literally what foreign aid is to the palestinians and that is why the receive and look what they have done with it. A people who continue to make stupid decisions and abuse their own people are not capable of leading themselves, literally.
100% agree. And with how right wing the Israel government is right now, there’s no way they’ll address reparations for Palestinians anytime soon (the country already was going right, now after the Hamas attack you can bet more right wing aprties will take more power in Israel).
Israel needs to get themselves together and work towards peace, with the rest of the world’s back as insurance of Palestinians not doing dumb stuff (which meanwhile is the only thing Palestinian leaders did).
Definitely not an expert.
Well, looks like neither are the world leaders, since they go towards my way of looking at things (allowing Israel to defend itself, while not being simultaneously humane and giving food/water/electricity to their enemies).
The fifth stage of grief is acceptance.
The Jewish population also increased in the ghettos before the Nazis decided to clear the Ghettos. Maybe you should go read the UN definition of genocide before saying stupid shit?
increased in the ghettos
Source? That sounds like an interesting read
Either way tho, that wasn’t my main point. My main point is that Israel is fighting a war against Palestinian leaders, not killing civilians needlessly. And that’s a nuance that’s not addressed in this article, or in most pro-palestinian text I read.
Is that why Palestinian and Israeli Arab population numbers keep increasing?
Read the article and find out.
I stopped reading when they uncritically accepted reports from the Gaza Health people. Who, uhh, are Hamas.
An Israeli historian and Holocaust scholar
If you know more than this guy, maybe you should be taking calls from the State Department instead of arguing basic logic on Lemmy. Good on you for educating us simpletons. With your help, maybe some of us can be productive members of society.
If they’re taking Hamas’s word for anything, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to rely on their analysis. Sorry.
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What? Dude if you’re racist that’s up to you. Hamas runs the government of Gaza. Saying Hamas is Hamas is just accurately describing reality.
Well, you’re implying all Gazans are Hamas. Which is bullshit.
Uhh, no, I’m stating that Hamas controls the entire Gazan government, which includes the health ministry. So, trusting the Gaza health ministry is literally the same thing as trusting Hamas.
The gaslighting just won’t stop. Terrorists invaded Israel with the explicit purpose to commit genocide against jews, any attempt to fight back against that is criticized. A huge chunk of the whole world just seems to feel like Israel “deserved it”, and they should just take it lying down.
1000 people are going to commit genocide against a country of 7 million? Try to have some sense of the scale of things here.
So because they weren’t successful at wiping out every jew, which was their intention, they get a pass? That’s unrealistic.
It’s not that it wasn’t successful, it’s that it wasn’t within their capability. So getting upset about something that’s impossible in order to justify mass slaughter is an exercise in excuse making.
Oh fuck off there’s no way the force Gaza put out ever had a chance of doing that and Hamas themselves have said they expected to fight the military at the border. At this point the only people saying Israel is at risk of genocide are the Israelis themselves.
Then stop gaslighting.
How should they react to Hamas’ desire to exterminate them?
Maybe not by mass murdering innocent civilians?
Defending yourself and annihilating an entire people are two different things.
They told them to evacuate and Hamas told them to stay put which many did.
So what’s your suggestion?
Going in there with the army on the ground? That will probably result in even more casualties.
Hamas is just evil with how they planned their bases around hospitals, churches or civilian buildings because they know that it’s impossible to target them without having civilian casualties. That’s the whole point.
So Israel should just ignore that Hamas specifically targeted schools and civilians for their attack and not do anything? Seriously what’s your suggestion besides staying in your childish black and white thinking of optimal solutions.
Civilian casualties are absolutely horrible but imho those are 100% Hamas fault for using them as meat shields and creating the necessity for a response by what they did to those victims of their attack.
I know Palestine people don’t really have a choice since there were no elections in a long time so they are the biggest victims of this but imho putting the blame on Israel is just making it far too easy.
Ofc I don’t have a solution, it would be ridiculous to claim that I did. But that doesn’t change the fact that genocide is not a solution either. It’s not like anything goes if no one has a perfect idea, and mass murdering civilians is pretty much the last thing on the list. It’s the one thing that should be avoided at all costs imo.
ofc is should be avoided at all cost - but the way it looks now it’s pretty much impossible to avoid given how Hamas is playing this…
I think your and my definition of “at all costs” is a bit different.
Do you believe Hamas would avoid civil casualties if Israel didn’t do those strikes and let them do whatever they wanted?
I think It’s pretty obvious that Hamas has never been and will never be able to kill nearly as many people as Israel is killing right now.
This is not a play ground. You don’t get to swing your fists wildly and blame any children who fail to get out of your way.
It is on the military to avoid civilian casualties. And a fake evacuation order doesn’t cut it. They know there’s nowhere for people to go without passing the IDF lines but they aren’t allowing that. So get out of here with your fake outrage about human shields. You are attacking into the most densely populated area on earth. Their mere existence does not make them shields.
It is on the military to avoid civilian casualties.
And what would be your solution to that? accept people to flee to Israel and put them in camps temporarily until they can go back? surely that won’t provoke negative reactions…
Letting everyone roam freely also isn’t workint since Hamas has shown that they’d take any chance they get to harm Israeli civilians so they’re for sure not taking that chance.it’s always easy to criticize something and MUCH harder to come up with a better alternative - and I’ve yet to read someone state one other than “don’t attack Gaza” which would basically be like rolling over and letting the terrorists win which surely can’t be in people’s interest…
They are called Refugee Camps for a reason. That IS the alternative. If you want remove people from a combat area then Refugee Camps are the international gold standard.
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Maybe you should debate the expert from the article.
Kill kill kill!!!
