Pressure grows on Apple to open up iMessage::Samsung has joined Google’s campaign to force Apple to make iMessage RCS-compatible—but European regulators are more likely to get that job done.
The pressure doesn’t matter, apple makes a legitimate amount of money from people scared of being a different colored bubble. Unless someone actually writes it into law and makes a provision that all the bubbles must appear the same, nothing will change
This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).
Edit: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.
Rather then pressure Apple to support and further popularise another closed protocol, we should be pushing for something open like Matrix or Signal.
I have never heard of anyone in the U.S. who cares about the bubble color either. The only reason I ever cared was that it used to mean there was a good chance it wouldn’t get through if it was a green bubble, but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. I’ve gotten iPhone-to-iPhone green bubbles when there’s been some sort of communication difficulty to Apple’s servers and it had to go straight SMS.
Are you dating or in school at the moment? I if not, it might be that you’re just oblivious to this trend, because it is definitely a thing in many social circles.
Seeems mostly a US centric thing though. I’ve never experienced this, 99% of people here with smartphones have whatsapp/telegram and use that almost exclusively, even iphone users.
No one said it wasn’t, but US is the largest and most affluent market and therefore the only one that matters. /s
Maybe for people much younger than me. But certainly I’ve never heard of such a thing in the many years I’ve had iPhones (started with the 3).
It’s not simply an age thing. I’m in my 40s and have definitely witnessed the judgment in the dating scene.
Easy way to filter out the shallow people not worth your time
Ok, fair, I’ve been married for over two decades. I don’t get why anyone would care though.
It’s not that difficult to understand. An iPhone is a symbol of affluence, and that aspect is important to many people who are looking for a mate.
Edited to add: And as dating has shifted to being mostly online, the first real connection you have with a potential mate outside of the apps is via text.
I haven’t encountered any adults who actually care about that in one-on-one conversations. I have however been excluded from group chats because mixing iMessage and SMS users resulted in a degraded experience. The iPhone users were, of course unwilling to consider installing any other chat app.
I find the last bit pretty annoying. It takes about 45 seconds to download Signal and confirm your number.
I just had that conversation with a group of adults who all had iPhones and were unwilling to add non-iPhone people to a group or change messaging apps.
The reasons given were:
- My iPhone is too old, I can’t install another messaging app.
- I’m not going to install another app where I have to remember another password.
- Messages don’t go through when we add a non-iPhone user to the group.
The conclusion by the group was “just buy an iPhone!”
And that’s a group of adults. I can’t imagine the bullying and peer pressure teenagers have to face over something as idiotic as messaging apps.
Meanwhile, I have six messaging apps on my phone (which is neither new nor high-end) and would be willing to install most others (not Facebook chat or Instagram) if it made communication easier for someone.
I have to say that in Denmark at least, iMessage seems to thrive quite well. There are quite a lot using Facebook messenger, but SMS and iMessage is a close second. This is entirely from my point of view. Never met anyone using the examples you mention, unless they are communicating with foreigners on a daily basis.
In finland everyone I know uses WhatsApp, and my friend circle and family also use Signal. So, eh.
It’s popular in Sweden too
Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.
My guy, this entire article is about Google and Samsung trying to convince Apple to adopt RCS.
Is a completely open standard better? Yeah, absolutely.
Would RCS basically create unified rich communication for virtually everyone? Also yes.
RCS isn’t open at all in practice and anyone who wants to put the carriers (or more likely Google) in control of messaging is a moron.
Nobody wants to do that, except that the alternative is SMS, which is much much worse.
It is proprietary but at least it will interoperable with other phones and carriers.
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this. There is literally no way Apple is going to ditch iMessage or open it up voluntarily.
Cue the EU.
They already got Apple on USB-C, repairability and RCS are next.
iMessage isn’t anywhere near as popular in the EU as it is in the US, so it’s just not as big of a problem for them to target and apple is doing a good job lobbying them not to
They’ll find some way to make it cumbersome and difficult to use so that no one bothers.
I’m sure their shareholders will appreciate getting billion euro fines.
/s
At best they will keep it out of the US market, until US regulators get up to speed.
I’m pretty confident the blue and green colors have nothing to do with it. It’s simply the difficulties of using sms (or at least how Apple implements sms). iMessage allows much higher quality videos/images to be sent and enables group chats to be dynamic where people can be added and removed at will. On iOS sms group chats have to be made with every member in it at creation, if you want to add another person or remove a person then you have to make a whole new group chat. Compound this with iPhone dominance in North America it often presents an annoyance where the single android user forces all the iPhone users to use sms and all the difficulties/reduced features it comes with.
WhatsApp, Telegram, and whatever chat app isn’t used in NA because it’s just harder to convince someone to download and make an account. Why should a user download another chat app? Why isn’t iMessage (sms) app good enough? Usually I’ve seen people just use instagram to chat with android users because sms is just so bad (at least on iOS, I’ve heard some things about how android works around the limitations).
Yes Apple could implement better sms features but they won’t.
So don’t just parrot “it’s because of the colors” it’s most likely due to users association with past experiences of “green chat bubbles”.
Apple is still to blame here but it’s not because users are scared. Most iPhone users or phone users in general just want it to work and never think about what features they’re missing. Asking/convincing someone to download yet another app and set up yet another account to yet again be spammed by emails, texts, phone calls is just too much for a majority of people who are used to the simplicity of iMessage. It comes with your phone, you make a single Apple account, and it just works™.
I’m pretty confident the blue and green colors have nothing to do with it.
You’d be surprised. A lot of girls won’t date someone if they don’t have the right colored chat bubbles.
“Where every single android user forces iPhone uses to use sms” Apple forces this, they are very happy to do this, to make iPhone users hate the different colored bubbles and for people to absolutely not want to be the different colored bubbles.
It’s everything to do with the bubbles. You can’t say it isn’t. People literally talk about this.
Exactly? From an iPhone users viewpoint the android phone is forcing them to use sms. I go on to say Apple is to blame.
SMS=carrier junk.
RCS=Google junk.
I agree.
Apple has nothing to do with the SMS junk other than allowing that junk to work because it is legacy.
Unless the EU makes them use RCS they never will. In the US iMessage is literally THE REASON people buy the iPhone. It’s their main selling point. They don’t care how much pressure you place on them, they aren’t going to lose those sales willingly.
💀
Nothing. Google Messages app has all the same features. The only problem is that Apple refuses to also support RCS (which Google messages uses) and so if an android user sends a message to an iPhone user, the iPhone user gets it as an SMS. If the Android user sends a picture, the iPhone user receives it as an MMS.
In the rest of the world this is not an issue because most people use WhatsApp or Signal or Viber or any other local messaging app. Also most android phones have the Messages app as default which means if you message another Android user they will get it over WiFi/data in the messages app.
But in the US for some reason the iPhone users consider getting an SMS as somehow bad and that the Android user is poor or inferior because they sent an SMS.
It’s totally stupid and only a US issue, but it’s so strong that teenagers will be bullied if they don’t have an iPhone for iMessage. So they all get iPhones in order not to be bullied. And this way Apple makes mega sales.
This is the reason I got my first IPhone. This is also the same reason why I left IPhone.
I’m glad you left. Welcome to the good side 👍
The fact that other people they know also use it.
The app itself is pretty much the same as any other modern messaging app, but network effects are everything when it comes to messaging services.
This is why you see entire countries where everyone has WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger or Telegram, depending on what other people in the country are using.
True. So true in fact that I’d be willing to bet that even if the EU made them implement RCS they still wouldn’t do it in the US. USB-C only worked because it’s a hardware change and maintaining separate lightning and USB-C models and accessory ecosystems doesn’t make sense. RCS is a software change that costs them nothing to NOT use in the only market where it would hurt them.
Agreed
In most of Europe, nobody uses an apple phone, so the pressure to get them to use a different protocol is fairly low.
It is not literally the reason.
Group chats in RCS weren’t even end-to-end encrypted on Android until August of this year. Green texts are a security risk.
Okay so now that it has encryption, what is the security risk?
If you’re that concerned with security, shouldn’t you be using Signal and try to convince others to do so? iMessage is E2E encrypted but Signal is platform-agnostic and has better security/privacy.
I don’t care but you have to convince Apple. People really pile on for the most trivial of comments.
I can’t speak for the others, but I’m just curious as to why iMessage’s quirks are heavily put up with. With the options of messaging apps nowadays, the “green bubble” stuff seems like an arbitrary problem.
Sure, it’s stock software, but plenty are willing to switch off Edge/Safari for Chromium browsers. I understand that there’s strong social pressure to conform to using the same messaging service. I think it’s something that can be worked around with any proficiency with tech, along with a good argument to the social circle. I managed to get off Messenger this way and it worked great.
Personally I’d rather find the best message service than use what everyone else uses, but that’s just me. It’s not a big problem at the end of the day, really. People value different things with their tech, and that’s fine.
Network effect. It’s easier to convince the one green text to switch than to convince everyone to switch to an alternative. Even in my one immediate family we only have one Android. As a result we have two group threads, one of which excludes that number so images and videos will go through at full quality. Message is the default so people use it. I’m aware that’s not the case in other countries.
😂, a security risk 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Are you Edward Snowden that you think it’s such a massive risk?
You are delusional. I use text messages all the time and there is zero risk.
“Lol, no.” -Tim Cook, probably.
“Hell yes” - the EU, definitely
This is where the EU could really make it a reality.
…or even better: end iMsg
IMessage isn’t really used in Europe, so it doesn’t get covered by the DMA-DSA-Duo sadly
I don’t think Europeans even use it
I remember Steve Jobs stating on stage that the protocol will be opened up when iMessage was revealed. Apparently this statement surprised the developers of it, because they didn’t know anything about that (based on some rumors).
Then that statement was silently ignored.
It was FaceTime, not iMessage. The reason the developers were surprised was that they didn’t own the tech, and Apple lost a patent lawsuit about it and almost had to remove FaceTime entirely. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-20236114 https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/apple-s-facetime-open-standard-never-happened
Oh you’re right, I misremembered.
But first you remembered.
I have zero interest in using any Apple service. I’ve never needed to, and I never will.
They can keep their imessage thing, I hadn’t even heard of it until just now. I’m good.
It’s incompatible with Android on purpose. They want their users shaming non apple users in to getting an iPhone.
Well it kinda works in a weird way
I saw it work in high school, but I haven’t seen adults care much. As an android user, there are times I wish I had iMessage, but I’ve never had anyone bother me about it.
It is not just high school students that care about pureblood iMessage group chats. Also dip shit wife beaters: https://news.yahoo.com/nba-head-coach-punished-team-161451722.html
Yeah, there’s always shitty adults. I typically try to avoid them
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Nobody I know uses iMessage (or RCS for that matter) here in Germany. Most people use WhatsApp.
I think this is an American problem
Not nobody, it’s number three after WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger (both owned by Meta).
So yeah, the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.
I don’t know if things like Snapchat are also in scope.
Edit: got corrected below. WhatsApp and Messenger are in scope, iMessage is being reviewed.
Funnily enough, here in Scandinavia next to nobody uses WhatsApp, we pretty much exclusively use sms/RCS/iMessage and Snapchat. Sometimes Messanger. Weird how different it is
People keep getting messages the app and iMessage the protocol confused. While never written that way (as far as naming goes), I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the EU isn’t just saying that Messages the app doesn’t just need hooks to allow third party apps to integrate into the one interface. It’s about adding more bubble colors as it were. So stuff like WhatsApp would just pop up in the same feed over whatever protocol it uses.
I hope this is right
I would love if they would just roll out an iMessage app to android. Ideally free.
I could realistically see them roll out an apple subscription pack to android eventually. Give users a way to access Apple Music, Fitness, etc. May even allow android users make use of Apple Watch.
I’m not an Apple fan boy, but this seems like a decent compromise from a business perspective. This meets a need and I don’t think there’s a decent enough argument that it would cannibalize iPhone sales (flagship models anyway)
I’ll just carry on using whatapps and people on iPhones can either download it or put up with my different coloured bubbles if they don’t want too. Luckily people in the UK are all mostly on WhatsApp anyway, this who text message colours is a very yank centric problem.
Signal or at least Telegram or Viber. Fuck WhatsApp, I’d like at least my messenger app to not belong to Facebook of all companies.
While it’s all still E2E encrypted I don’t really care what servers it goes though. If the UK/EU manage to get encryption blocked then I’ll worry.
they still collect the messages’ metadata and create a profile based on that.
Do you use E2EE for all your chats? I think nearly nobody does.
It’s on by default with every convo in WA.
Whatsapp is actually better than Telegram lol. You fell for Telegrams marketing lol
At least Telegram doesn’t show your fucking phone number
They can literally read your messages by default lol
For now. Facebook has said that they plan to disable end-to-end encryption in WhatsApp at some point, so that you can receive messages from people using Facebook Messenger.
This gets even better: WA listened to Putin and did not enable channels because it is popular among 40+ and teachers.
Any FSB agent can connect any whatsapp message to person who wrote it.
That’s just plain wrong.
Whatsapp is using the Signal Protocol.
To read your messages they need to get your phone. And now even your Backups are encrypted, so they can’t read your Messages from there.
I tried to use it a few months ago. It would not let me use it unless I gave it access to all my contacts’ information. I denied the permission request and it wouldn’t work.
How in the hell are you okay with that?
Because that’s how phones work, it links your account to your phone number and uses your contacts to tell you who’s on the app too using their numbers.
Because that’s how -phones- Whatsapp works,
Yeah, that is also how computer viruses work. I was very thankful for permission control. That app is cancer.
Meh, I think some people are just paranoid on Lemmy when it comes to stuff like this. There’s plenty of laws in the UK around storage and use of information that protect users of apps like this.
If it’s so benign, why make it necessary to give all the information about all your contacts to the app?
To paraphrase Zuckerberg, “people are dumbfucks for giving me so much information.”
How else do you think a messaging app that replaces your phones messaging functionality is supposed to work if not on phone numbers?
And all thieves pay close attention to laws, and make sure their apps have “nothing” hidden in the folds.
How do you think phone number based chat apps works bro?
Give me the option to add contacts individually?
That app is cancer, better just to nope out of the installation.
You can use Apple Music and an Apple Watch from android.
I ain’t paying a one time or subscription to get fucking blue or green bubbles. Hell with that.
I don’t think that works, since why would people want yet another chat app to deal with. I tried several but usually gave them up because iMessage does what I need it to and I don’t want to check many
Having everyone support RCS, as an update from SMS, gives that interoperability, along with improving the SMS experience
I was a huge fan of what Pigeon tried to do, but I’m Apple-centric these days and have no idea what the state of that is
FaceTime would be nice to have on Android as well, I know it technically works via a browser, if you get an invite from an iPhone user, but it’s such a bad experience for everyone. And I’m sure they do that because it’s easy peer pressure “advertising” from Apple users who want to video call with Android users, but can’t be bothered to put any work into using a compatible app, and instead blame Android users for the incompatibility.
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What happended with forcing interoperability with different services like WhatsApp and Messenger? Would be great if we could just have one app for all messages like on Windows Phone back in the day 🙏
Matrix has good interop, you can use it.
I’ve looked into using Matrix bridge to be able to communicate with iMessage groups from Android. There’s a repo / company called Beeper that seems to maintain some bridges.
But tbh haven’t spent enough time with it. Looks like a lot of setup and maintenance. Would LOVE to be able to talk to iMessage from android
I use Beeper. There is a bit of a setup process adding the different chat networks but there’s next to no maintenance in my experience. It pretty much just works.
the downside is that it decrypts your messages on their server before sending them in either direction. so even if you use an e2e encrypted messenger like Whatsapp or Signal with it, Beeper could still read your messages.
I miss the old days of Trillian, a single pane of glass UI for all the major IM networks, cross-service meta contacts, and the messaage history was kept client side.
I don’t get why people like RCS in this context. It has the same problem as iMessage.
On Android you have to use Google Messages to get it. Third party apps don’t work with it because Google never opened it up to them. How common is RCS without Google Messages? Even on Samsung phones it goes via Google.
How common is iMessage without an Apple product?
Why does Google want them to use iMessage? Probably since the data would flow through them.
Same shiz, different company.
RCS is just a standard, much like how SMS is just a standard. Google’s Messaging app is just one implementation of it, though it probably is the most popular in the US it is not the only one, nor is Google able to decide who cannot use it. Carriers typically have their own, though you may have recently heard that T-Mobile decided to switch over to Google’s.
It works on Textra just fine
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Beats me someone liked a text I sent them a few days ago and I realized I could give their’s emoji responses too.
That does not mean that Textra supports RCS at all. It does not. It just supports text reactions with other Textra users.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/vpt6uq/textra_updated_to_send_reactions_like_ios/iensamw/
The other user isn’t using Textra though which is why I thought it was rcs.
Samsung Messages supports RCS if carrier enables it: https://www.androidcentral.com/how-set-rcs-chat-samsung-phones
Because most people don’t really understand the specifics of what they are railing against and/or arguing for. They just read “big bad Apple is being eViL” and get on the complaint train without really understanding what they are advocating for.
In my opinion Google should really being trying to push Chat as the default for Android instead. It is no more walled off than Googles RCS implementation, and unlike RCS they don’t need Apple to bake it into their messaging app to attract users.
The fact that they care more about their RCS implementation for this purpose instead of Chat or just the basic RCS protocol as the standard tells me Google is more interested in the easy road to being the technical foundation of texting for reasons other than the universal convince of customers or the proliferation of standards.
In reality they probably want this so bad because if they were to get it it would make it effectively impossible for the average person to avoid Google services on some level, which is good for their data mining empire.
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There is exactly one app that can use rcs. No better than apple
Doesn’t the EU DMA would eventually force Apple, Whatsapp… to open up ?
iMessage was excluded because nobody uses it here
What’s here ? I’m French and I think 90% iPhone users use it. For what I see, Whatsapp here is more, of an app dedicated to family groups and travelling abroad
EU. They took a look at the market position in EU and came to the conclusion that it could be excluded from the legislation because it held such a little position. WhatsApp and Messenger are massive compared to iMessage.
Oh alright. Too bad
David Meyer put a lot of effort into this story and it shows.
Who is he again?
