I see the human organism as a layering of different levels of consciousness. Each layer supports mostly automated processes that sustain the layers beneath it.
For example, we have cells that only know what it’s like to be a cell and to perform their cellular processes without any awareness of the more complex layers above them. Organs are much more complex than cells and they perform their duties without any awareness of anything above them either. And the complexity keeps increasing with various systems like endocrine, cardiovascular, etc. Then we have our subconscious and finally our conscious.
At our level, we do not consciously control any of the layers beneath us. Our primary task is to keep our bodies alive.
This got me thinking… isn’t it a little too self aggrandizing to think that we have a near infinite layering of consciousness beneath us and then it just stops at our level of awareness? What if there is some other conscious process that exists above us within our own bodies?
When people take psychedelic drugs they often describe achieving a higher level of awareness akin to ecstasy. Well what if this layer is always there actively ”living” within us but we are just the chumps that go to work, do our taxes, and exercise, while it doles out just enough feel good chemicals to keep us going (sometimes not even that)?
I think you aree using the word “consciousness” without having actually defined it, thus leading to an observation that sounds remarkable but might not be at all.
To be precise, I have no idea what you mean by lower levels of consciousness. Certainly there are systems that build upon each other, but where do you think consciousness resides other than where people ordinarily think it resides? And I mean this seriously. There might be some discussion about dreaming and subconsciousness, but at most that’s giving us three different types or levels of consciousness. What you wrote clearly describes more levels, and I just don’t know what they could be or where you think they are.
I have a panpsychist definition of consciousness.
I do not equate consciousness with “intelligence” or life for that matter. I think consciousness is a fundamental property of every little thing in our universe. I believe that higher levels of consciousness arise due to higher levels of systemic complexity.
This definition is more intuitive to me as compared to the modern definition where conscious life develops on earth from essentially nothing that is itself “alive”.
Can you provide a panpsychist definition of consciousness? I had a hard time finding an actual definition in searching. I understand the idea that panpsychists believe that mind is a fundamental part of reality, but haven’t seen a solid definition of consciousness in that context.
Also are you on the Panexperientialism or Pancognitivism bandwagon? Or maybe both?
Edit: From plato.stanford.edu I found this, but it is attributed to analytic philosophy:
“something is conscious just in case there is something that it’s like to be it; that is to say, if it has some kind of experience, no matter how basic.”
I am purely panpsychist. My intuition says that literally everything in this universe has a bit of consciousness in it. An atom has a bit, a cell has a few bits, a human brain has trillions of bits.
As an analogy, in a vivid dream “you” may be holding an apple, but in the end both you and that apple are made of dream-stuff. I believe that is the case for reality as well.
What is consciousness in this context though? What do you mean by “a bit of?” Are atoms only partially experiencing being atoms?
What was trying to say is that I believe that neutrons are experiencing being neutrons, protons are experiencing being protons, electrons are experiencing being electrons, etc. Meanwhile an atom that contains all of the above is a more complex system and thus has a higher level of consciousness. Again I don’t equate consciousness with intelligence but more of an elementary state of awareness that allows these entities to perform their function.
This is really hard for me to articulate because I’m coming at this from a philosophical point of view and not a scientific one!
Roger that… In which case, your original question is answered by your definition. If everything has consciousness at every level, then of course you can zoom in or out as much as you want.
I personally don’t know what to make of that use of those words, though. Verifiability is long gone, which raises consistency questions.
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Who knows man
I was hoping that the CEO of Lemmy would!
Oh man I am saving this one. Next time I’m stoned with someone.
I have to say, the title did not convey the good argument you make.
This is exactly the thought behind the Hindu philosophy of Advaita (non-dualism). Not only does it argue that our state of consciousness and our state of dream are identical but also posits that in order to switch between them we have a thirst state of deep sleep. It then argues that all of these three are not the ultimate state of consciousness but there must be a state which experiences all these. Not only is this the highest state of consciousness but it should also be universal i.e. all of us are the same consciousness.
There is absolutely a subconscious super-brain within our minds that we can sometimes observe and even control to an extent. It can calculate things a lot faster that we consciously do. It’s how we dream of elaborate things, it’s how we can approximate distances, it’s how our intuition works. It can be turned into your personal assistant with enough training and awareness. I believe you can become a genius if you train this part of the mind to interact with your conscious.
Interesting intellectual work. You can further extrapolate though, there’s no good reason not to, within the thought experiment. Why should consciousness stop at cells or solar systems?
Then you can consider the multitude of distinct philosophies that are fond of all things being fundamentally and inescapably interconnected in ways we do not understand yet.
Even Jesus said the Kingdom of God lies within us, not external to us.
I actually don’t believe that consciousness stops at cells or solar systems :). I am a panpsychist which holds the view that everything in our universe is made up of consciousness (just not the super intelligent type that we typically associate with the word).
People usually get hung up on the idea… “how can you consider this rock to be conscious”. Well within this rock there are protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms, molecules, etc, that all “know” how to do their thing to form a rock. If things weren’t conscious then nothing in our universe would have a shape. I believe that higher states of consciousness arise from simpler lower states.
I’ve always been curious at scaling up to astrological size. Galaxies just being possible cells in an even larger entity. Not that I take this as some belief, just something I think about often.
I also suspect that consciousness is far more complex than we have guessed at so far. I’m betting the AI pursuit is going to be the research path that eventually nails it down.
Which will dismay a great many people that disagree with the idea that humans are supposed to create our own world, and bear responsibility for the things we create.
It’s possible that there are multiple consciousnesses within a single person, and when each of them reads this post, they all think it refers to them. “You” are just one of the consciousnesses, thinking you are the main one. Or maybe you think it refers to you, but another consciousness in the same body is aware of itself as well as you and laughing at your ignorance.
Could these be the negative and positive thoughts within ourselves?
The voices in my head tell me things all the time
You’re just jealous because the voices talk to me.
This was my issue with Cogito ergo sum when I was younger.
Can we really assume as Descartes does that I am the one thinking?
Or is it only that I’m the part of me observing the thoughts go by?
So I preferred further reduction to “I observe therefore I am.”
I was thinking,
The hive mind of social media
Cultural consciousness
Familial decisions
National/tribal consciousness
But this is not within the body so maybe I’m wrong
If there were no people, would there be a national consciousness? If such a think exists, it is the sum of parts, so it is partially within the body (if what you say is real).
I want to add that there was a study in Princeton designed to prove the existence of a Global human consciousness. It ran for 15 years and proved the hypothesis with odds in favor of a trillion to one.
Awesome, l will check this out. I have certain ideas about this that are personal (no proof) so always interested in anything like this.
I actually share your thoughts! I used our body as an example to illustrate my point but I believe that this concept expands beyond our bodies and into everything.
We could both be wrong though!
Yes and in perspective we just might be a cog in an organic web of life that we might not be aware of. Just like the cells, functioning without being aware that they are part of an organ.
À very interesting questions. I’ve long felt there was two possible answers to this. You can see a more complex layer at the level of the relationship we have with other beings or even objects (Me + My Favorite Song would be a being of n+1 level of complexity). I call it the Deleuze/Spinoza hypothesis.
Then, you could see it as a kind of personal truth you’re embodying, not as a creator but just as an operator, a tool. Although “personal” wouldn’t be the right word. You would embody, express, a fraction of a deep truth which is specific to each being.
Or maybe something else I’m unable to imagine.
I love the way you’ve articulated the n+1 level of complexity! As if the information that we consume alters the complexity of our own consciousness.
Also, if I may add and as other have stated, some do not see consciousness as the most complex layer of the human being. Some even consider it as an off-product of our highest functions.
Perhaps the next emergent entity is not corporeal, but, instead, of the collective. A good example could be similar to what @[email protected] stated about how the movements of people in crowds are, on the “microscopic” scale, seemingly random, and unpredictable, but, on the “macroscopic” scale, can be predicted quite accurately. One could look at economies, traffic flow, entire nations, etc. as emergent entities that rely on our individual, autonomous interaction. A very interesting such example is outlined in this paper which explains how “Online communities featuring ‘anti-X’ hate and extremism” can be accurately modeled using “novel generalization of nonlinear fluid physics”.
From my understanding:
- Consciousness is simply a “sense of self”.
- Consciousness resides in the brain.
Your idea is intriguing. However, let me clarify our assumptions in this context.
The reason we consider our consciousness to be at the top is because we seem to be able to control the abstract processes of our body (including the mind). This can be anything from moving your hands to rejecting a religious belief.
If there is a greater consciousness in our very bodies, I think we would have seen its effect in the physical world by now. Assuming said entity is part of an intelligent organism (supposed to be us but not sure, going by the prompt), or will likely take decisions based on a structure.
I do not know how to answer this question if the higher consciousness exists in the metaphysical realm, since we exist in a 3D world and metaphysics in this case can be subjective.
Cheers
That is interesting and I have no opinion on whether it is real or not, however I think it would be a great plot to a movie learning of the higher consciousness and working with what it can do.
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