• Lamps@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    Just takes one student with a screen reader to get screwed over lol

    • CaptDust@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      A human would likely ask the professor who is Frankie Hawkes… later in the post they reveal Hawkes is a dog. GPT just hallucinate something up to match the criteria.

      • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        The students smart enough to do that, are also probably doing their own work or are learning enough to cross check chatgpt at least…

        There’s a fair number that just copy paste without even proof reading…

          • Guilherme@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            I think of AI regurgitating content from the Facebook page of a normie - like it was an essay.

            Evaluation of Weekend Minecraft-Driven Beer Eating and Hamburgher Drinking under the Limitations of Simpsology - Pages 3.1416 to 999011010

            • BatmanAoD@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Do you mean that you think a student not using an AI might do that by accident? Otherwise I’m not sure how it’s relevant that there might be a real person with that name.

              • Guilherme@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                No, of course not. I was talking about a student using an AI that fails at realizing there’s nothing academically relevant that relates to his name, so instead of acknowledging the failure or omitting such detail in its answer, it stubbornly uses whichever relates to that name even if out-of-context.

        • jj4211@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’d presume the professor would do a quick sanity search to see if by coincidence relevant works by such an author would exist before setting that trap. Upon searching I can find no such author of any sort of publication.

          • marcos@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            All people replying that there’s no problem because such author does not exist seem to have an strange idea that students don’t get nervous and that it’s perfectly ok to send them on wild-goose chases because they’ll discover the instruction was false.

            I sure hope you are not professors. In fact, I do hope you do not hold any kind of power.

            • jj4211@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Strangely enough I recall various little mistakes in assignments or handing in assignments, and I lived.

              Maybe this would be an undue stress/wild goose chase in the days where you’d be going to a library and hitting up a card catalog and doing all sorts of work. But now it’s “plug name into google, no results, time to email the teaching staff about the oddity, move on with my day and await an answer to this weird thing that is like a normal weird thing that happens all the time with assignments”.

              On the scale of “assisstive technology users get the short end of the stick”, this is pretty low, well behind the state of, for example, typically poor closed captioning.

  • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    I wish more teachers and academics would do this, because I"m seeing too many cases of “That one student I pegged as not so bright because my class is in the morning and they’re a night person, has just turned in competent work. They’ve gotta be using ChatGPT, time to report them for plagurism. So glad that we expell more cheaters than ever!” and similar stories.

    Even heard of a guy who proved he wasn’t cheating, but was still reported anyway simply because the teacher didn’t want to look “foolish” for making the accusation in the first place.

    • FutileRecipe@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I uploaded one of my earlier papers that I wrote myself, before AI was really a thing, to a GPT detector site. The entire intro paragraph came back as 100% AI written.

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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        At this point I’m convinced these detectors are looking for the usage of big words and high word counts, instead of actually looking for things like incorrect syntax, non-sequitur statements, suspiciously rapid topic changes, forgetting earlier parts of the paper to only reference things that happen in the previous sentence…

        Too many of these “See, I knew you were cheating! This proves it!” Professors are pointing to “flowery language”, when that’s kind of the number one way to reach a word count requirement.

        When it shouldn’t be that hard, I used to use ChatGPT to help edit stories I write (Fiction writer as a hobby), but then when I realized it kept pointing me to grammar mistakes that just didn’t exist, ones that it failed to elaborate on when pressed for details.

        I then asked what exactly my story was about.

        I was then given a massive essay that reeked of “I didn’t actually read this, but I’m going to string together random out of context terminology from your book like I’m a News Reporter from the 90’s pretending to know what this new anime fad is.” Some real “Cowboy Bepop at his computer” shit

        The main point of conflict of the story wasn’t even mentioned. Just some nonsense about the cast “Learning about and exploring the Spirit World!” (The story was not about the afterlife at all, it was about a tribe that generations ago was cursed to only birth male children and how they worked with missionaries voluntarily due to requiring women from outside the tribe to “offer their services” in order to avoid extinction… It was a consensual thing for the record… This wasn’t mentioned in ChatGPT’s write up at all)

        That’s when the illusion broke and I realized I wasn’t having MegaMan.EXE jack into my system to fight the baddies and save my story! I merely had an idiot who didn’t speak english as a writing partner, and I’ve never

        I wish I hadn’t let that put me off writing more…

        I was building to a bigger conflict where the tribe breaks the curse and gets their women back, they believe wives will just manifest from the ether… Instead the Fertility Goddess that cursed them was just going to reveal that their women were being born into male bodies, and just turn all who would have been born female to be given male bodies instead. So when the curse was broken half the tribe turned female creating a different kind of shock.

        There was this set up that the main character was a warrior for the tribe who had a chauvinistic overly macho jackass for a rival… and the payoff was going to be that the lead character was going to be one of those “Women cursed with masculinity”, so when the curse is broken he becomes a woman and gets both courted by and bullied by the rival over it, who eventually learns that your close frenemy suddenly having a vagina is not a license to bang her, no matter what “TG Transformation Story Cliches” say about the matter…

        Lot of

        “Dahl’mrk, I swear if you replace my hut’s hunting idol with one of those fertility statuettes while I’m sleeping one more time, I’m going to shove both up your bumhole.”

        Energy…

        God I should really get back to it, I had only finished chapter one… and the mass gender-unbending doesn’t happen till chapter 3.

    • yamanii@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      There are professional cheaters and there are lazy ones, this is gonna get the lazy ones.

    • xantoxis@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Is it? If ChatGPT wrote your paper, why would citations of the work of Frankie Hawkes raise any red flags unless you happened to see this specific tweet? You’d just see ChatGPT filled in some research by someone you hadn’t heard of. Whatever, turn it in. Proofreading anything you turn in is obviously a good idea, but it’s not going to reveal that you fell into a trap here.

      If you went so far as to learn who Frankie Hawkes is supposed to be, you’d probably find out he’s irrelevant to this course of study and doesn’t have any citeable works on the subject. But then, if you were doing that work, you aren’t using ChatGPT in the first place. And that goes well beyond “proofreading”.

    • abbadon420@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      But that’s fine than. That shows that you at least know enough about the topic to realise that those topics should not belong there. Otherwise you could proofread and see nothing wrong with the references

  • ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    My college workflow was to copy the prompt and then “paste without formatting” in Word and leave that copy of the prompt at the top while I worked, I would absolutely have fallen for this. :P

    • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      I mean, if your instructions were to quote some random name which does not exist, maybe you would ask your professor and he’d tell you not to pay attention to that part

      • BatmanAoD@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Wot? They didn’t say they cheated, they said they kept a copy of the prompt at the top of their document while working.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Any use of an LLM in understanding any subject or create any medium, be it papers or artwork, results in intellectual failure, as far as I’m concerned. Imagine if this were a doctor or engineer relying on hallucinated information, people could die.

          • AWildMimicAppears@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            there is no LLM involved in ryven’s comment:

            • open assignment
            • select text
            • copy text
            • create text-i-will-turn-in.doc
            • paste text without formatting
            • work in this document, scrolling up to look at the assignment again
            • fall for the “trap” and search like an idiot for anything relevant to assignment + frankie hawkes, since no formatting

            i hope noone is dependent on your reading comprehension mate, or i’ll have some bad news

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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              lmao fuck off, why put so much effort into defending the bullshit machines?

              EDIT: I honestly didnt even read your comment, too much time wasted arguing with bota and techbros, but if you mean to try to explain the user meant copying the assignment instructions then said user should never have used the word “prompt” in this context to begin with.

              • Darkaga@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Damn, if you’re this stupid I understand why you’re scared of the machines.

                No one in this thread is talking about or “defending” LLMs but you.

              • stevegiblets@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                I feel nothing but pity for how stupid you are acting right now. Read it all again and see if you can work it out.

                • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  How dare I hurt your feelings by standing up for academic honesty and responsibility. How dare I oppose automating paperwork meant to prove competence of students who will decide the fates of other people in their profession.

                  Just despicable, absolutely attrocious behavior.

              • BatmanAoD@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Holy shit, “prompt” is not primarily an AI word. I get not reading an entire article or essay before commenting, but maybe you should read an entire couple of sentences before making a complete ass of yourself for multiple comments in a row. If you can’t manage that, just say nothing! It’s that easy!

                • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I stand by everything that I have said. LLM AI is garbage, anybody who uses it for work or school is a garbage human being who needs removal from position, and if that commenter meant to say instructions but instead wrote prompt then they made a mistake.

          • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You’re a fucking moron and probably a child. They’re telling a story from long before there were public LLMs.

          • juliebean@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            they didn’t say they used any kind of LLM though? they literally just kept a copy of the assignment (in plain text) to reference. did you use an LLM to try to understand their comment? lol

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Its possible by “prompt” they were referring to assignment instructions, but that’s pretty pointless to copy and paste in the first place and very poor choice of words if so especially in a discussion about ChatGPT.

  • Navarian@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    For those that didn’t see the rest of this tweet, Frankie Hawkes is in fact a dog. A pretty cute dog, for what it’s worth.

  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Btw, this is an old trick to cheat the automated CV processing, which doesn’t work anymore in most cases.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Ah yes, pollute the prompt. Nice. Reminds me of how artists are starting to embed data and metadata in their pieces that fuck up AI training data.

  • archiduc@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Wouldn’t the hidden text appear when highlighted to copy though? And then also appear when you paste in ChatGPT because it removes formatting?

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      The text has nothing unusual, just a request to make sure a certain author is cited. It has no idea that said author does not exist nor that the name is even vaguely not human

  • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    Doesn’t help if students manually type the assignment requirements instead of just copying & pasting the entire document in there

    • thevoidzero@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      And is harmful for people like me, who like to copy paste the pdf into a markdown file write answers there and send a rendered pdf to professors. While I keep the markdowns as my notes for everything. I’d read the text I copied.

    • Logical@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Or, you know, if you read the prompt before sending, look at the question after you’ve selected it, or just read your own work once. This method will only work if students are being really stupid about cheating.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
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      That’s an odd level of cheating yet being industrious in a tedious sort of way…

  • Engywuck@lemm.ee
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    I don’t get it (not a native English speaker). Someone cares to ELI5? Thanks a lot in advance.

    Edit: thank you everybody for explaining :-)

    • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Students are cheating by using a program that can do their homework for them.

      A smart professor hid a guideline to cite works by a dog.

      The students who copy pasted the prompt got works attributed to a dog in their homework.

      • Khanzarate@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Right, but the whitespace between instructions wasn’t whitespace at all but white text on white background instructions to poison the copy-paste.

        Also the people who are using chatGPT to write the whole paper are probably not double-checking the pasted prompt. Some will, sure, but this isnt supposed to find all of them its supposed to catch some with a basically-0% false positive rate.

        • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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          Yeah knocking out 99% of cheaters honestly is a pretty good strategy.

          And for students, if you’re reading through the prompt that carefully to see if it was poisoned, why not just put that same effort into actually doing the assignment?

          • Windex007@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point, so forgive me, but I expect carefully reading the prompt is still orders of magnitude less effort than actually writing a paper?

            • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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              2 months ago

              Eh, putting more than minimal effort into cheating seems to defeat the point to me. Even if it takes 10x less time, you wasted 1x or that to get one passing grade, for one assignment that you’ll probably need for a test later anyway. Just spend the time and so the assignment.

              • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                Disagree. I coded up a matrix inverter that provided a step-by-step solution, so I don’t have to invert them myself by hand. It was considerably more effort than the mind-boggling task of doing the assignment itself. Additionally, at least half of the satisfaction came from the simple fact of sticking it to the damn system.

                My brain ain’t doing any of your dumb assignments, but neither am I getting a less than an A. Ha.

                • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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                  Lol if this was a programming assignment, then I can 100% say that you are setting yourself up for failure, but hey you do you. I’m 15 years out of college right now, and I’m currently interviewing for software gigs. Programs like those homework assignments are your interviews, hate to tell you, but you’ll be expected to recall those algorithms, from memory, without assistance, live, and put it on paper/whiteboard within 60 minutes - and then defend that you got it right. (And no, ChatGPT isn’t allowed. Oh sure you can use it at work, I do it all the time, but not in your interviews)

                  But hey, you got it all figured out, so I’m sure not learning the material now won’t hurt you later and interviewers won’t catch on. I mean, I’ve said no to people who I caught cheating in my interviews, but I’m sure it won’t happen to you.

                  For reference, literally just this week one of my questions was to first build an adjacency matrix and then come up with a solution for finding all of the disjointed groups within that matrix and then returning those in a sorted list from largest to smallest. I had 60 minutes to do it and I was graded on how much I completed, if it compiled, edge cases, run time, and space required. (again, you do not get ChatGPT, most of the time you don’t get a full IDE - if you’re lucky you get Intellisense or syntax highlighting. Sometimes it may be you alone writing on a whiteboard)

                  Of course that’s just one interview, that’s just the tech screen. Most companies will then move you onto a loop (or what everyone lovingly calls ‘the Guantlet’) which is 4 1 hour interviews in a single day, all exactly like that.

                  And just so you know, I was a C student, I was terrible in academia - but literally no one checks after school. They don’t need to, you’ll be proving it in your interviews. But hey, what do I know, I’m just some guy on the internet. Have fun with your As. (And btw, as for sticking it to the system, you are paying them for an education - of which you aren’t even getting. So, who’s screwing the system really?)

                  (If other devs are here, I just created a new post here: https://lemmy.world/post/21307394. I’d love to hear your horror stories too, as in sure our student here would love to read them)

  • Schtefanz@feddit.org
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    Shouldn’t be the question why students used chatgpt in the first place?

    chatgpt is just a tool it isn’t cheating.

    So maybe the author should ask himself what can be done to improve his course that students are most likely to use other tools.

    • fibojoly@sh.itjust.works
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      Sounds like something ChatGPT would write : perfectly sensible English, yet the underlying logic makes no sense.

  • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    This is invisible on paper but readable if uploaded to chatGPT.

    This sounds fake. It seems like only the most careless students wouldn’t notice this “hidden” prompt or the quote from the dog.

    Maybe if homework can be done by statistics, then it’s not worth doing.

    Maybe if a “teacher” has to trick their students in order to enforce pointless manual labor, then it’s not worth doing.

    Schools are not about education but about privilege, filtering, indoctrination, control, etc.

    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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      The whole “maybe if the homework can be done by a machine then its not worth doing” thing is such a gross misunderstanding. Students need to learn how the simple things work in order to be able to learn the more complex things later on. If you want people that are capable of solving problems the machine can’t do, you first have to teach them the things the machine can in fact do.

      In practice, compute analytical derivatives or do mildly complicated addition by hand. We have automatic differentiation and computers for those things. But I having learned how to do those things has been absolutely critical for me to build the foundation I needed in order to be able to solve complex problems that an AI is far from being able to solve.

    • ArchRecord@lemm.ee
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      Schools are not about education but about privilege, filtering, indoctrination, control, etc.

      Many people attending school, primarily higher education like college, are privileged because education costs money, and those with more money are often more privileged. That does not mean school itself is about privilege, it means people with privilege can afford to attend it more easily. Of course, grants, scholarships, and savings still exist, and help many people afford education.

      “Filtering” doesn’t exactly provide enough context to make sense in this argument.

      Indoctrination, if we go by the definition that defines it as teaching someone to accept a doctrine uncritically, is the opposite of what most educational institutions teach. If you understood how much effort goes into teaching critical thought as a skill to be used within and outside of education, you’d likely see how this doesn’t make much sense. Furthermore, the heavily diverse range of beliefs, people, and viewpoints on campuses often provides a more well-rounded, diverse understanding of the world, and of the people’s views within it, than a non-educational background can.

      “Control” is just another fearmongering word. What control, exactly? How is it being applied?

      Maybe if a “teacher” has to trick their students in order to enforce pointless manual labor, then it’s not worth doing.

      They’re not tricking students, they’re tricking LLMs that students are using to get out of doing the work required of them to get a degree. The entire point of a degree is to signify that you understand the skills and topics required for a particular field. If you don’t want to actually get the knowledge signified by the degree, then you can put “I use ChatGPT and it does just as good” on your resume, and see if employers value that the same.

      Maybe if homework can be done by statistics, then it’s not worth doing.

      All math homework can be done by a calculator. All the writing courses I did throughout elementary and middle school would have likely graded me higher if I’d used a modern LLM. All the history assignment’s questions could have been answered with access to Wikipedia.

      But if I’d done that, I wouldn’t know math, I would know no history, and I wouldn’t be able to properly write any long-form content.

      Even when technology exists that can replace functions the human brain can do, we don’t just sacrifice all attempts to use the knowledge ourselves because this machine can do it better, because without that, we would be limiting our future potential.

      This sounds fake. It seems like only the most careless students wouldn’t notice this “hidden” prompt or the quote from the dog.

      The prompt is likely colored the same as the page to make it visually invisible to the human eye upon first inspection.

      And I’m sorry to say, but often times, the students who are the most careless, unwilling to even check work, and simply incapable of doing work themselves, are usually the same ones who use ChatGPT, and don’t even proofread the output.

    • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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      Maybe if homework can be done by statistics, then it’s not worth doing.

      Lots of homework can be done by computers in many ways. That’s not the point. Teachers don’t have students write papers to edify the teacher or to bring new insights into the world, they do it to teach students how to research, combine concepts, organize their thoughts, weed out misinformation, and generate new ideas from other concepts.

      These are lessons worth learning regardless of whether ChatGPT can write a paper.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
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      Even if the prompt is clear, the ask is a trap in and of itself. Because it’s not possible to actually do, but it will induce an LLM to synthesize something that sounds right.

      If it was not ‘hidden’, then everyone would ask about that requirement, likely in lecture, and everyone would figure out that they need to at least edit out that part of the requirements when using it as a prompt.

      By being ‘hidden’, then most people won’t notice it at all, and the few that do will fire off a one-off question to a TA or the professor in an email and be told “disregard that, it was a mistake, didn’t notice it due to the font color” or something like that.