Have been keeping half an eye on framework laptops as a potential next daily driver as and when I’m ready for one.
Just wondering what people’s experience of using them on linux has been, particularly nixos
I’m assuming all the drivers are in the kernel given the way the company is
Have been using a 2016 thinkpad for the past year or so and have had a decent experience with it, with the way lenovo have gone with their newer thinkpads it seems like framework is now the best for maintainability/upgradability
(not planning to upgrade in the immediate future as this machine is doing fine, but frameworks are a strong contender in my mind right now and I’m curious as to people’s experience)
Sleep kind of sucks on the original 11th gen hardware. They pushed out a bios update that broke S3 sleep, so now all you’ve got is the s2idle version, which the kernel is only OK at. Your laptop bag might heat up. S3 breaking isn’t really their fault, Intel deprecated it. Still annoying though. I’ve heard the Chromebook version and other newer gens have better sleep support.
Other than that, it’s great. NixOS runs just fine, even the fingerprint reader works, which has been rare for Linux
I can live with that, my thinkpad won’t sleep properly at the moment anyway (I’ve taken to just running systemctl hibernate before closing the lid, I should probably set that to the default behaviour instead of suspend at some point)
you should enable
suspend-then-hibernateinstead. laptop suspends normally and if not woken in, say, an hour, the RTC hibernates it to disk.Doesn’t work, I’ve already spent ages trying to get this to work properly and have basically just given up at this point.
I don’t mind waiting for it to recover from hibernation, I only hibernate it once or twice a day anyway
not to trample on your experiences, but you can make it work. it’s true it’s super cumbersome and involved though.
I’ve had/got it working on a T420s, T480s, T14, MBPr 2012, on debian, fedora, and arch. it helps if it’s not your primary/only workstation so you can tweak it without pressure. keep at it, it’s worth it, I can’t imagine using my laptops any other way.
maybe do I write-up one of these days.
I’m not doubting it’s possible but with the combination of my hardware and the fact I’m on nixos it proved to be too much trial and error, too many options to try and too much time to iterate as I needed to reboot every time it didn’t work
Is that the case for the AMD boards as well?
Couldn’t tell you unfortunately. It looks like AMD is also on board with deprecating S3 sleep, so I would guess that it’s not significantly better. The kernel controls the newer standby modes, so it’s really going to depend on how well it’s supported there.
Do you know how to make the fingerprint reader work on my newly purchased Carbon X1 Gen 6 with Ubuntu on it? I’ve gone to great lengths to make it work but still haven’t found a solution
Not in general, sorry. Best bet is to make sure you’re using the most recent kernel, which Ubuntu tends to lag on. You can also try checking out the arch wiki entry for it. It’s a different distro, but the wiki is good and commonly has tips relevant for any distro.
Thank you!
I’ve had a 13in for like 2 years now? Running Fedora KDE.
Software-wise, it is nearly flawless. Linux always has some gimmicks but the Framework experience has been on par with a Dell XPS 13 that I have also run Fedora on in the past.
Hardware-wise, also been pretty nice. Battery life is ok, not amazing. I broke the screen on a trip one time - I bought a replacement from the website and did the maintenance myself to put the new one in. Not going to lie, that felt pretty awesome (and I’ve built many high complexity desktops in the past). Fixing your own laptop isn’t something you can usually do.
The touch pad is currently haven’t some issues, so I’ll replace that too eventually.
Quirks: Touch pad responsiveness was never excellent but certainly serviceable. The 4:3 screen ratio is odd to some people, though I personally really enjoy it.
At this point I can’t picture myself going back to laptops I can’t repair myself. It has been a breath of fresh air. If you care less about that and want just the best Linux experience on a high end machine, Dell XPS might still be the one, but Framework comes very close in my opinion.
I’m a big fan of being able to fix stuff myself, XPSes I’ve heard are very good but I also like the idea of being able to just upgrade the CPU GPU and memory later on when it starts to slow down and not have to buy a whole new laptop
I have the 16 and use NixOS. I haven’t had any issues. I’m able to use the fingerprint scanner and all of the function keys do what they’re supposed to.
If you’re not already aware, there’s a nixos-hardware repo with common settings for various devices that you can import. All of the Framework laptops have a module there. Although, if I recall correctly, everything worked fine before I pulled that into my config, so it seems like the hardware scan did a good job making everything just work.
Is the 16 the one with the GPU slot? Thinking of getting that one myself at some point possibly without the GPU to begin with to save a bit of money then upgrade if I need it
Yep, that’s the one. I can’t speak to the compatibility though because I got the one without a dedicated GPU.
My brother has a Framework 13 and mainly uses a combination of NixOS and Windows. Most of the time he uses NixOS, but sometimes the software he needs is broken on Nix. When that happens, he reverts to a previous version of Nix or he boots onto Windows. He has Windows installed in one of the external-drive socket thingies that he keeps plugged in at all times in case he needs Windows.
Apart from the occasional broken Nix package, he has had issues with the hyper-sensitive two-finger scrolling in Gnome (which I would say is not directly a Framework or Nix problem). Also, a while back, when I bought the computer with him, we bought Oloy RAM because it was fast and cheap, but that lead to weird crashes. Framework support helped us test the sticks and eventually we sold those sticks and got the Framework-tested Crucial sticks, which solved the problem. Finally, I remember he had to be careful about not just closing the laptop but actually clicking “sleep” and then closing it, because otherwise it would get super hot and lose a lot of battery.
Despite these struggles, he recently told my Mac-loving girlfriend that he will not get a “disposable” computer. I take this to mean he will keep using his Framework laptop.
I imagine the broken packages thing are less about the framework itself, he’s probably using discord or other electron stuff right?
I’ve found when an electron package gets marked as insecure it takes everyone a while to update to the secure one
The clicking sleep thing is interesting one but at the moment I’m doing something very similar anyway
My Framework 13 AMD works great on Zorin, as well as most distros I’ve played around with. Can’t say anything for NixOS though. There is a script they have you run to install/auto update the OEM kernel. I have also noticed battery drain in sleep though.
Seems to be a pretty common complaint, you’d hope they would’ve fixed that given how many people seem to be having that issue
Just got a framework 13. Flawless on Fedora.
Fantastic, how long have you had it for out of curiosity since you said you got it recently? I’m also wondering as to the longevity of these laptops
My batch shipped a month or so ago. But the other posts in your thread kinda give you an idea of longevity. Seems like someone else has one from the first batch and it’s still going.
Kubuntu on Framework 16 AMD 7000 series here. Sleep is horrible - definitely drains your battery. Bag heats up, and I estimate maybe a 1% drain per hour. I’ve enabled hibernate though I rarely use it.
Battery is alright but not great. I get maybe 2-3 hours of active, light use from full battery.
No compatibility issues that I’ve noticed, though, of course, Linux has its fair share of minor non-hardware-related bugs.
Camera is serviceable but not amazing. Not sure about microphone but I assume the same thing. Speakers are somewhat odd in that the speakers are pointed to the side rather than toward the front, but again - serviceable.
Have you tried it much without the GPU? I imagine that would cut down battery usage by a lot right?
Camera mic and speakers are not a deal-breaker especially as they’re upgradable from what I understand
Yes, I don’t use the external GPU. I just use the AMD APU. Also I realized that AMD 7000 could refer to both the cpu and the GPU. Ah, AMD and their marketing
Hmmm 3 hours battery is definitely a major downside, given it charges off usb c less of an issue but still
Was actually considering getting one of those copilot pcs once the Linux support catches up, supposedly people are charging those things once a week or so
My understanding is that Arm chips don’t have any fundamental advantage over x86 chips. They’re more efficient simply because they’ve been optimized to be more efficient for so long. I’ve heard that upcoming Intel and AMD chips could be able to compete with the new Arm cpu’s, so if you’re not going to get a new laptop soon, it seems worthwhile to just wait and see
Not planning to give up on the trusty ThinkPad soon anyway
So far the evidence I’ve seen has been overwhelmingly that arm chips are way more power efficient
People say it makes no difference but I’ve yet to see an x86 device come close to the arm ones battery wise, seems like a strange coincidence
Yes, but that’s my point, you see. Because Arm historically has been used for mobile and small devices, there’s been a strong incentive for decades to emphasize power efficiency. Because x86 historically has been used for desktops, there’s been a strong incentive to emphasize power. It’s only been very recently that Arm attempted to have comparable power, and even more recently that x86 attempted to have comparable power efficiency.
Sure, Arm is currently more efficient, but the general consensus is that there’s no inherent reason for why Arm must be more efficient than x86. In other words, the only reason it is more efficient is just because they’ve been focusing on efficiency for longer.
Both AMD and Intel’s current gen x86 cpu’s are, from what I can tell, basically spitting distance away from Qualcomm’s Arm cpu’s in terms of battery life, and rumor has it that both x86 companies should be able to match Arm chips in efficiency by next gen.
So if efficiency is a priority for you, I think it’s worthwhile to wait and see what the cpu companies cook up in the next couple of years, especially as both AMD and Intel seem to be heavily focused on maximizing efficiency right now
Interesting, is the CPU upgradeable on the framework? Could be nice to replace that later down the line when those come out
Just tested with normal power profile and screen brightness turned down - battery went down by about 50% after 3 hours. I think my laptop usually dies after 3 hours because I have the screen brightness up
What’s the brightness like and in what country if you don’t mind me asking?
Tend to have my current laptop on full brightness all the time otherwise I can’t see anything, and I live in a generally pretty dark country
I mainly do work indoors, so the brightness does not really matter that much to me. But as far as I can tell, the brightness is pretty normal for laptops - I don’t think it’s any brighter or dimmer than other laptops I’ve used in the past. According to this website that I found, brightness is 25 to 486 nits. Google search seems to say that average maximum brightness for laptops is somewhere around 300-400 nits.
My understanding is that the screen is generally what eats up most of the battery on device, so if you plan to have brightness turned up, it might be difficult to find a laptop with a long battery life.
I’m running Fedora on my Framework 13 - works great, no issues. I have only had it open to install the RAM so far, but it appears to be as upgradeable and repairable as advertised. Looks great, feels premium, nice and light. Not great battery life is my only complaint, but there are larger batteries available for the 13 since I bought mine.
Ooh battery upgrades are a good sign, what kinda battery life do you get now with an unupgraded one?
I haven’t evaluated it properly in a while but I’m pretty sure it was under 8 hours with the CPU throttled and the screen brightness low. I am usually just writing or coding on it, nothing too intensive.
Ooooh very promising
What’ve you got it throttled to?
I mean I use it in power saver mode. It goes as low as 400MHz but it’s not fixed at that. 12th gen i7 btw.
Is this on Linux or Windows?
FW 16 on Ubuntu LTS has worked flawlessly for me except the battery drain on sleep is really bad (20% per 24 hours). No crashes or freezes or resume from sleep failures as I’ve experienced on other laptops with no vendor support.
Does the same apply for hibernation? My current behavior is to hibernate my machine manually before shutting the lid anyway so I don’t think that would bother me too much (though it would be nice to have a machine that will suspend properly)
I’m currently using LUKS full disk encryption which can complicate hibernation. There are some community instructions here https://community.frame.work/t/guide-framework-16-hibernate-w-swapfile-setup-on-fedora-40/53080
Honestly? Not that good. My favorite computer hardware I’ve used period, no competition. I like the design, the keyboard is fantastic, and the build is very high quality. Seeing it online doesn’t do it justice. That aside, the Linux experience? It’s been straight up bad. I bought this computer for school. it ended up being around $1300.00 which is absolutely not cheap by anyone’s standards (easily 3x as expensive as any laptop I’ve ever bought) but then again this is the first current gen computer I’ve bought as well. The first week using it was pretty good, actually. I’ve been using Ubuntu which is officially supported for this framework by the Ubuntu devs. Fast forward to week 2, the wifi stops working. Mind you, I’m using this FOR SCHOOL. The computer will connect to wifi no problem for the first few (literally maybe 3) minutes but after this the wifi will disconnect and will straight up refuse to work unless I restart the entire computer, and even after I do the problem will occur again in under 4 minutes. Doesn’t matter if I turn wifi off and back on in the quick settings or restart the wifi services in the terminal, no dice. I tried updating the kernel, etc etc etc. in order to get any of my school done I did literally have to restart my entire computer 3-5 times for every single class or for any time I wanted to use the computer. Again. $1300 computer I bought SPECIFICALLY FOR SCHOOL. The insanity of having to drive to my school and use their computer lab and work around the hours that the computer lab is open after spending that much on something is infuriating to me. I asked on Reddit, the best advice they could give me was replace the wifi card (Framework AMD) as ‘mediatek is crap’ which I thought should not be necessary. So I ate $20 after just spending $1.3k and bought one of the compatible intel wifi cards and for a few days, I though the issue was solved. Fast forward a couple of weeks and I still have to restart the computer 2-4 times per day. I’m just so sick of troubleshooting something every single day, and more than that I legitimately don’t have the time anymore even if I did have the energy. I believe in the concept and see the vision but I don’t have the time in my life to spend 2+ hours tinkering and troubleshooting and fixing something every day, (especially on an OS that is officially supported by the manufacturer and OS maintainers, mind you). I plan on wiping the computer and installing a different officially supported OS and if this does not fix the issue, I will be getting in touch with framework to ask for a refund.
P. S. - I’m sure this might be a duh thing when it comes to Linux on laptops but the battery life is not that good. It hasn’t been absolutely horrible, but I also haven’t been measuring it outside of “will this get me through the day” nor have I been doing much heavy work on it beyond the regular. I have not found the battery drainage issue to be a problem for me personally , although I have noticed it drain some especially after a couple of days. But if you leave it alone for a few days with a decent amount of charge it’s not going to be dead when you go to use it.
Edit: I also cannot for the life of me get my drawing tablet to work with it even though I have the drivers installed, but this could be a Linux issue.
I think you should try a full reinstall it sounds like something’s just borked in the install, otherwise get in contact with them and get a refund/send it in for them to look at it that’s what supported means
Also Ubuntu is kinda overrated nowadays anyway, you should absolutely try something else before giving up on it.
Gonna get hate for saying this but if you don’t want to tinker and you just want a working machine you should probably just put windows on it, at the very least if it still doesn’t work then you know it’s 100% a hardware issue and can get in contact with framework
Self managed Linux is not a good plan for people who have zero interest in having to fix anything themselves
I tried using windows one afternoon and almost shot myself.
It’s obviously subjective but it is not for me. If anything I’ll go back to macos if it doesn’t work out. It’s not that I “have zero interest in fixing anything myself” I just can’t spend 8+ hours a week troubleshooting things that should work out of the box on a $1300 computer. On top of school full time and my job. Hopefully I’ll get the time to do a reinstall this week. Being able to browse the web seems like the bare minimum.I read the last part of your comment in a nerd voice.
Entirely fair I am a nerd
My experience of Linux has been that it needs a certain amount of tinkering to function properly and my experience of people who make statements about supported configurations is that they are not willing to put up with that
Agree with that windows is a horrible user experience by comparison but it’s the most likely to just work and be supportable
I am an obsessive thinkerer. For me thinkering means tewaking you installation, get plugins, run weird scripts to do weird stuff. Wasting time kf real work to fix your wifi is not thinkering, it’s just frustrating
Yeah to be fair I agree, I’ve been having an issue with suspend on my current laptop which I decided to just ignore in the end cause it was frustrating me so much
Though installing other people’s random scripts and plugins is a good way to get an unstable broken system
Nixos is great to still be able to fiddle while staying stable given you can just boot an earlier install if you fuck up, also throwaway dev shells with temporary installed packages. Might be worth giving it a go
Have 16, FedoraKDE not nixOS though, no problems to report in my sector.
No issues with battery life or fan noise? That’s what I’m hearing from others
No fan noise, battery could be better but could be worse, but no external GPU which probably exacerbates both.
I’m not planning on getting the GPU anyway, most of my work is done from a terminal and a browser in a lightweight window manager, as long as the integrated graphics can handle that it’ll be fine
Oh for sure, it can handle 2160p video on the integrated, and a terminal and browser (with 16gb ram anyway), no problem. It’ll stutter a bit if I am file transferring with all that though.
