They say that GNU is spreading misinformation and “stop getting info from charlatans”?
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I’m afraid to ask this because I’m not a dev, but I have a fair amount of linux experience. Why is it that the ability to install Google Play Services on GrapheneOS makes it not FOSS/open source, while the ability to install Google Chrome (or any proprietary software, I guess) on Linux doesn’t make is non-FOSS/open source?
I’m not articulating that question very well, and I’m assuming I’m missing some key component, but they seem comparable to me, as a regular user. Is it something like the level of access that GPServices has to the kernel?
On Linux most distros do not actually ship chrome but chromium which is the open source version of chrome.
It also comes down to how different groups define FOSS. GNU considers even helper programs (like a package manager or firmware installer) to be “bad” for the user because they “encourage” its use so they dont want them included in GNU approved distros like trisqul or guix . this leads to those “freedom respecting” distros not having things like basic WiFi drivers or support for any 3rd party drivers.
To a less extreme degree but similar is a distro like debian, where there is a “non_free” repository available but users can choose not to enable it.
And so GNU sees having the playstore as a bad thing because its gateway to installing other non free software. Its also safe to assume most gnu evangelists probably don’t care much for chromium either.
I think we need uncompromising people in this world. Doesn’t mean we have to listen or follow everything they say though. Those are my thoughts on GNU.
I’m not a fan of GrapheneOS, but the point they bring up here is valid. There is already proprietary firmware on your computer. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t be updating it to protect yourself from serious exploits. The FSF takes an ideological stance rather than a practical one, unfortunately.
I agree with you: the FSF can seem unwavering in their stance, even in the face of practicality. I’m really sorry for this incredibly nit-picky detail, but I think practicality is ideological too. For better or for worse, we can’t escape ideas or be free from them, so we have to choose which we value. For example, while I tend to choose software freedom over practicality, I also have, at times, chosen practicality over freedom.
That’s true. I didn’t think about that. Thank you. :)
Except they also advocate using compute devices that only use blobless firmware
I know. And that’s reasonable of course. I’m sure most of us would agree that proprietary blobs are bad. I’m optimistic that firmware will become more open in the future though.
I think your question is answered by the thread you linked. Is there something in particular you don’t understand?
GNU/the FSF says that GrapheneOS does not qualify as free software (which is true, it’s not completely FLOSS as per the FSF’s definition—the linked GNU article classifies plenty of popular Linux distros we consider to be FOSS as non-free, btw, they’re not singling out Graphene), and GrapheneOS is saying they don’t want to fit the FSF’s definition of free software because it would mean a lack of security (which is also true; they need proprietary firmware updates from Google). The FSF has a strict definition of free software which a lot of software does not meet, and usually an entire operating system would only meet the FSF’s definition out of a deliberate, conscious, ideological decision to exclude all non-free software. In their article they even list Debian as a distro which no longer meets their standards, despite Debian being known for their strict policy around only including FOSS in their repos.
This is an instance of two different entities (GNU and GrapheneOS) having fundamentally different goals (one values a strict definition of free software at all costs, one values security at all costs). You are more than welcome to do things GNU’s way if you don’t like GrapheneOS’s way, or vice versa.
Because strcat is fucking nuts
However I’m still using GOS as theres no other better options
Because there is nothing that exists today that is completely, from head-to-tail, open source. Being allowed and able to install closed source software does not make an open ecosystem suddenly closed.
Plenty of Linux systems today rely on binary blobs to make hardware work. Plenty of software can run on an open source ecosystem while itself being closed source.
Richard Stallman is a toe-booger eating weirdo looking for attention.
Lemmy world go home
