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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
The woman accused of being first to spread the fake rumours about the Southport killer which sparked nationwide riots has been arrested.
Racist riots spread across the country after misinformation spread on social media claiming the fatal stabbing was carried out by Ali Al-Shakati, believed to be a fictitious name, a Muslim aslyum seeker who was on an MI6 watchlist.
A 55-year-old woman from Chester has now been arrested on suspicion of publishing written material to stir up racial hatred, and false communication. She remains in police custody.
While she has not been named in the police statement about the arrest, it is believed to be Bonnie Spofforth, a mother-of-three and the managing director of a clothing company.
…and how exactly is the intent going to be proven? The post itself isn’t an incitement to violence, she isn’t even claiming that what she posted was the truth, merely saying “if this is the truth”.
The people who need to go to jail are the rioters, not some random woman who (in a charitable interpretation) simply reposted something online.
She was the first to post the incendiary racist lie, and she posted it claiming it should result in violence. I think Farage and Tate should also be charged for amplifying it (but Tate isn’t in the country).
You think that the people who rioted should go to prison but not the woman who started the ball rolling and first suggested the rioting online? Punish the footmen but not the ringleaders? Your morality is screwy.
Words can have power. Don’t use them to start violence in the streets of the UK. We’ll put you behind bars for that and not be sorry.
Ringleaders? Again you claim there is intent, where is the proof of this? Also, where is she inciting violence?
Compare this to Aaronovitch tweeting (allegedly as a joke) that Biden should have Trump murdered a few days before the assassination attempt. Did he get arrested?
If one online post of (potentially innocent) misinformation is enough to rile up riots on the streets of your country, clearly your society is pretty severely fucked up and needs a reality check.
Needing to lock up random civilians because they said something inconvenient is not exactly a sign of strength or morality, at least in my book.
Far right nut jobs rioting for political purposes isn’t the same as the whole country going crazy. It’s not society in general that’s fucked up and needs a reality check, it’s the far right nut jobs. (Far, far more people turned up for the Hope not Hate counter protests, which were peaceful.)
I think this is an absurdly naïve reading of the tweet in which she quite clearly expresses that violence is the inevitable result of the wrong immigration status of the suspect. It’s very clearly a lie designed to stoke anger and foment violence. Which it did. Far right nut jobs go to prison for rioting. Far right nut jobs that incite the violence go to prison. Good.
She’s not a random civilian, she’s the one at the start of the chain of events.
“saying something inconvenient” and calling for violence on a false racist narrative are not morally equivalent. You’re not winning the moral argument by equating them.
Please try not to use words like “inconvenient” in a discussion about far right street violence. It’s a bit insensitive and comes across as trivialising the issue.
You keep dodging my question. You claim that the poster knew that this was false and intended to incite violence, can you cite any external proof for this at all or is it just a hunch?
Occam’s razor would point to the simplest explanation - A mistake by the poster originating from hearsay or… a hunch (something that happens thousands of times) rather than some conspiracy to incite riots and violence.
You’ve addressed a total of zero points I raised. It’s like I didn’t say them.
Again with the absurd naivety. She initiated it. The calls for riots. With her words. This wasn’t an accidental brush across the keyboard, and it’s illegal in UK law to do that.
Are you her lawyer?! No. What a strange question. Why the sudden asymmetry in standards of proof between us? Did you quote any external evidence for any of your opinions? Is this a court of law or an internet discussion? Weird.
I addressed a total of one.
The original question that you still haven’t adressed, probably because you can’t. Thing is, the rest of your arguments are moot if there is no intent. You assume she is malicious, but she very well mightn’t have been, and even if she was it’ll be difficult to prove.
“All hell will break loose” really isn’t an incitement to violence. It might mean political scandal, flame wars on social media, protests etc., none of which are riots.
If anything, what I see is politicians wanting somebody to blame for their own mistakes, a convenient scapegoat, one person who they can pin the blame on instead of taking responsibility.
She wasn’t anywhere near the “start” of this, merely one (potentially innocent) link in a chain of events starting years prior with gross political mismanagement.
You keep demanding proof of me and never proving anything at all that you claim.
If proof is important for internet debates, where’s your proof that she wasn’t anywhere near the start of this batch of far right violence? That’s a bold unsubstantiated claim that contradicts the police. Where’s your proof that the police falsely claimed that they traced online calls for violence following the child murders back to her? That’s an even bolder unsubstantiated claim. You claim she’s a political scapegoat. Where’s your proof that there was political interference in her arrest? That’s another bold unsubstantiated claim.
Incitement to violence is a crime in the UK. I’m not sure that you’re entirely clear on what incitement is. She’s subject to UK law. I hope she goes to prison for it. The more people know they can go to prison for this shit the less rioting we’ll have.
Don’t write your race hate on the internet and don’t invent a lie about child murders and call for violence. If the far right nut jobs heed your call, the police will correctly come for you.
Enough to be certain that proving intent to incite is supposed to be central to the conviction.
I’m claiming that there is a lack of evidence for the polices suspicion and that it will be difficult to obtain. Your inability to point to even the slightest external evidence that the post was made maliciously is enough to say that any other explanation is just as likely and validates my claim.
Maybe you’ve heard of Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
It’s also funny how you’ve set up a bunch of strawmen claims that I never made to fight. Thankfully, I don’t live in a fucked up country where the legal apparatus can chase me down for other people misinterpreting my words.
Oh, and btw, do you think the UK police don’t also want a scapegoat after fucking up containing riots and having kids get killed on their watch?
Just exercising my freedom of expression to share my speculations on the matter ;)