• conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    I remember debating with my buddy (he’s pro-Russia) about the Ruso-Ukrainian war when it broke out, and my saying how Russia invading Ukraine because of Nazi gangs is a pretty flim flam excuse for a land grab. “It would be like the US invading Mexico and seizing territory because of the drug cartels”, I said. Why is my country this way.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Why is my country this way.

      Wars are traditionally pitched as “defensive” from their native soil. Vietnam was justified by the Gulf of Tonkin incident. WW2 was justified by Pearl Harbor. Iraq and Afghanistan were justified by 9/11. Or Benghazi was for Libya. Etc, etc. Now Trump is arguing that cartel violence on the border justifies invading Mexico. Only a matter of time before they can point to a Missing White Woman or a drug bust or shoot out that can be used to justify moving troops over the border.

      Russia isn’t any less immune to this logic, and the War in the Donbas was as hot an issue to capitalize on as anything Americans experienced with Panama in the 80s or Cuba in the 60s.

      Same with China and Taiwan. Or the civil wars in Sudan and Ethiopia. This isn’t in any way a uniquely American problem.

    • jeffw@lemmy.worldOPM
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      7 months ago

      Pretty cringe that you know someone who parrots Russian govt talking points though

      • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I guess. He’s an Anarchocapitalist on every other day of the week. I just enjoy arguing amicably with people, and he does too, so our friendship works.

          • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            Tell me about it. Anyway, he’s not under any illusions about how fucking backwards both the US and Russia’s governments are, but he really believes that Russia’s in the right on the matter of the war because there really are capital N Nazis that really are up to Nazi shit in Ukraine. As fucked as that genuinely is, imo I think that’s just the flimsy pretense being used to justify a land grab, which is why I used the analogy of the US invading Mexico under the flimsy pretense of stopping the cartels. Well, here we fucking go, I guess.

            • mecfs@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I used to have friends like that.

              Don’t count them as “friends” these people are friends until you become, gay, disabled etc. then they spit in your face.

              It’s definitely a priviledge to be able to be friends with bigots.

              • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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                7 months ago

                He’s gay, and he’s always been there in a pinch. He’s not a bigot, he’s big on the Anarcho side, just wants people to not be interfered with and thinks a lot about how the government interferes with people a lot.

                For context, I lived in the south when for a few years around the time Obama ran for president and met actual KKK members without their hoods. I’m white, so I did have the privilege of getting to immunize myself against their bullshit right from the source. Someone else I know came out as both trans male and an actual Nazi in almost the same blow. They claim to be an ironic Nazi, but that experience taught me that there’s no such thing. I’m grateful for the encounter, as it gave me time to learn to recognize the enemy, but I don’t speak with them anymore. I don’t break bread with that type as a matter of policy, life is too short for that. I just learn enough to spot their shit and move on.

              • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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                7 months ago

                Yeah, he actually runs a social group that managed to get a video response from Prigozhin shortly before Prigozhin’s dollar store rebellion.

                  • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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                    7 months ago

                    I can’t speak for him, but I think everyone does some handwaving for their team. Unfortunately, the Ruso-Ukrainian war is practically a meme of Slavic conflict with all the shitty stuff happening, and it’s got everyone’s arms about broken with hand waving.

            • Wrench@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Does he exclusively consume zero hedge for his media? Because he sounds exactly like my frienemy. Without the amicable part.

      • Red_October@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        One of the biggest complaints about Democrat presidents is that they don’t follow through on their promises. It says a lot when your biggest defense of Trump is that he won’t either.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            The difference between making Mexico pay for his wall and bombing Mexico is that, as Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces, he would have the ability to bomb Mexico.

            I have no idea why you don’t understand that.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            He said before his first term that he was going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it and has done neither.

            He’s spent billions on a bigger DHS, a bunch of blockades of inconsistent quality built by shady Trump-aligned contractors, and transfer of military hardware to border town police forces.

            The idea that Trump hasn’t militarized the border is flatly false.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        They both “happened” in so far as you can point to events that justify what came next.

        Trump can easily point to border violence that he can use to justify an invasion in the same way Putin used the civil war in the Donbas to justify invading Ukraine.

        These aren’t True/False statements, they’re events used as justification for invasion. Claiming there’s no violence on the border of Texas and Mexico is maybe a step shy of claiming 9/11 or Pearl Harbor were inside jobs. What’s at issue isn’t “Did this happen?” but “Is launching a twenty year long bloodbath a prudent response?”