"went home, kicked sarumans ass for good, and then got to slammin…
Oh right, the whole battle of the shire isn’t a thing because some dork chopped it and Tom bombadil completely out of a movie script.
What? No… I’m not bitter… much
They’re saving it for the sequel, “The Shire, An Inconvenient Truth”
Idk, I do wish Tom bombadill was in the movie since he’s probably my favorite character, but I was fine without the battle for the Shire.
It just seems too much too briefly even in the book, I think it would have been very difficult to include that organically in the movie.
I feel like Tom Bombadil is an interesting mystery in the universe, but they’re pretty easily cut out of the story without changing anything really other than getting rid of the question of “who’s this weirdo that the ring doesn’t affect?” The Scouring of the Shire is also arguably cut pretty easily, and I get why a lot of people don’t like it, but it seems more important to the themes in the book and to show how the heroes have evolved since they were last in the Shire.
I’m also fine with Tom not being in the movies, for exactly the reason you’re saying.
I also selfishly want him on screen just to stare at, I’d love like a whole 45 minute cutscene or entirely separate production laboriously following the details of his actions and behavior that are in the book. I don’t even care that his ultimate nature is a mystery. Honestly, I just love his buoyant singing and style.
Did you read that theory about him being the song of the ainur? It’s a great read. One of the nerd of the rings or other fans do a summary video of it on YouTube if you want to cut down the reading time.
I also selfishly want him on screen just to stare at, I’d love like a whole 45 minute cutscene or entirely separate production laboriously following the details of his actions and behavior that are in the book. I don’t even care that his ultimate nature is a mystery. Honestly, I just love his buoyant singing and style.
That’s totally fair :). You like what you like! I haven’t heard of many people who are big fans of Tom Bombadil, but it makes me happy to know you seem to love those chapters!
Did you read that theory about him being the song of the ainur? It’s a great read. One of the nerd of the rings or other fans do a summary video of it on YouTube if you want to cut down the reading time.
Yes, I’ve heard this theory! Honestly, when I first read the books I didn’t really appreciate Bombadil, and I think this helped me appreciate them a lot more. I think how weird Bombadil is made them hard to read for me. They’re so unexpected that it’s almost hard to fit them in your head and have a clear mental image of what’s going on, you know? Also I just find songs hard to read… Which is problematic for these particular books, haha.
Yeah, I totally get what you’re saying, his presence is a bit of a non-sequiter in the flow of a grand adventure getting underway.
I had the opposite reaction upon meeting Tom for the first time in the books, reading the Lord of the rings the first time was not exactly boring but felt more like a chore than many novels I read(and I do feel like if I went through them again, I’d enjoy them more now), but the section where bombadil showed up is like this bright light in my memory where some indefinable quality of the story fell into place for me and just made sense. I don’t know if it’s the musical nature of the elf language songs in every culture or how important nature is to the world without any obvious deities or practices of worship in the lotr, but when tom showed up I instantly felt like “oh, here he is”, and although I never got an answer regarding his ultimate nature, it always seemed like he played this indispensable role inside of that musical natural world.
Yeah. I think if nothing else it does really stand out! It definitely feels like it’s really important and significant… But in a way that sort of isn’t to everything that’s going on in the story? Which I guess is kind of exactly what Bombadil is… They’re some ultimate power that’s just there, but doesn’t really care too much about the goings on aside from in their little insular region. I think it didn’t really sit well with me that Gandalf was like “no, Bombadil won’t really care about the ring,” though… Because I think when we encounter Bombadil they’re a little sporadic, but they clearly care enough to help all of the main characters and didn’t really seem inattentive in any way to me.
I had read the books after I had already seen the movies so I was kind of confused when I first encountered Bombadil. I imagine that makes them stick out even more… Makes Bombadil seem weirdly non-canon, which is a bit of a shame, I think.
The first time I read the books I only got to a little after bombadil. Maybe halfway through fellowship, and then I quit.
And then the movies came out and I was like. Oh yeah this is way easier.
But then I was teaching a student who was obsessed with the books and had read every tolkien work related, so I finally went back.
And it’s so funny. You mentioned that quote by gandalf because again I had the opposite reaction. When gandalf said that Tom wouldn’t care about the ring, I just had this feeling of “Well of course not, that isn’t his concern.”
I just had this bizarre connection to how peculiar though powerful Tom was, I guess.
Yeah if they find a letter in 20 years that tolkien wrote to his editor that tells them to just take Tom out of the final draft because he’s still figuring out what to do with him ultimately, I would think" Oh of course, that Tom guy is practically an anachronism in lotr."
Structurally, sure, take him out, but for just my feeling of the whole world, I do like enigmas and idiosyncrasies and Tom is a haiku in a hurricane.
You should get to grey havens after carrying this pai n inside you for 20+ years
The reason Sam could give up One Ring was because he wanted nothing more than a small garden to tend to. He never desired anything more. Hence, The Ring couldn’t tempt him.
Edit: To clarify, Sam never attempted to steal The Ring from Frodo. That is because Sam could resist the temptation of the ring because of his simple desires.
I like this idea. Is it canonical?
Not entirely. Sam was tempted, and if he possessed the ring long enough he would have been overcome like any other, but his Hobbit-sense saved him in that one small moment:
"“As he stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he were robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, and vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor…”
"Wild fantasies arose in his mind; and he saw Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age, striding with a flaming sword across the darkened land, and armies flocking to his call as he marched to the overthrow of Barad-dur… He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. "
"In that hour of trial it was the love of his master that helped most to hold him firm; but also deep down in him lived still unconquered his plain hobbit-sense: he knew in the core of his heart that he was not large enough to bear such a burden, even if such visions were not a mere cheat to betray him. The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command. "
The One Ring fucked up. It needed to tempt him with a mountain of PO-TA-TOES.
Such is hobbit life.
Thank you very much for the disclaimer and the quotes, they explain a lot. Are there any clues in the text that gandalf knew exactly what he was doing when he chose Sam to accompany frodo. With respect to this honest sense, Sam has?
In the book, when he was carrying it temporarily for Frodo, the Ring did tempt him. He saw himself at the head of a vast garden, a garden rivaling nations, one that would be free of society and allowed to grow endlessly. The feelings of conquest were justified immediately by the retaking of nature.
Not too bad of a temptation, I dare say.
Geez, there’s so much I either missed or conflated with the movies since reading the series. Someone else included the quote where he just wants to be a small gardener with his own garden, but I don’t remember the garden to rival nations although it rings a bell.
Oh, found it, “and then all the clouds rolled away, and the white sun shone, and at his command the vale of Gorgoroth became a garden of flowers and trees and brought forth fruit. He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own”
That’s great, thanks.
Yeah maybe I was inflating it just a tad, it seems he had the realization that he could have such a large garden, but conceded in only wanting a nice singular garden.
No, that’s great, I totally forgot about that point in his temptation, It’s great that his most fervent desire that the ring can discern is for a…just a giant garden.
Haha
It’s actually pretty funny to imagine the Ring searching his mind for ways to tempt him and being like, “This guy just wants a fucking GARDEN? What am I supposed to do with that?? Uhh, hey, Sam, you can have a garden that covers all of Middle Earth! (That’s so stupid, I hope he falls for it)”
Hahaha, yea that’s hilarious
True. But also, I believe he was pretty hungry by this point in the journey too, so being able to just grow thousands of fruit trees instantly might have been pretty tempting at the time
The Ring tried to tempt him like you pointed out, but because he only wanted to tend to a small garden, he never attempted to steal The Ring from Frodo unlike Boromir.
Slammed prime Hobbitussy
That’s gotta be a brand new sentence
No one wanted to think about it given the amount of ill placed hair hobbits have.
Ok, I’ll bite: WOMEN ALSO HAVE HAIR THERE.
No sir, I imagine all alpaca sweaters sleeve pulled inside out and rumpled up.
Maybe something like a thneed.
I was going to make a muff joke but that might date me.
You haven’t ever tried VICUÑA have you?
With balls that big, I’m surprised he didn’t have 20 children at one go.
Tolkien said that Sam is actually the hero in LOTR
That’s fine. Sam didn’t do it for the fame, he just did it for his friend Frodo.
Sauron wasn’t afraid of Shelob. She was a convenient guardian of the mountain pass. Sauron even sent her some prisoners as a form of execution.
Anon was thinking of Melkor and Ungoliant. Melkor really was afraid of Ungoliant. If Ungoliant’s insatiable need to consume didn’t result in her consuming herself, she would have been 1000x more dangerous and powerful than Sauron by the 3rd age.
side character
Sam was the protagonist of the story. Frodo literally did nothing notable in the entire story. He didn’t even throw the fucking ring into the volcano, which was the only job he had. Frodo was a rich asshole climbing Mt. Everest, and Sam was the sherpa who saved his ass but got none of the credit.
Frodo was responsible for being the vessel to absorb and shield the ring’s power from others while carrying it to Mt Doom. If Sam himself carried it, he would have eventually succumbed to the ring just like Frodo. No one could really do much alongside that burden.
Eh, he had his moments.
He saved the party in the burrow, endured the Nazgul blade in his shoulder, decided to take the burden alone when it started to affect the fellowship, tamed Gollum and got them through Emyn Muil and the Marshes, convinced Faramir to let them go on and keep their guide.
Granted, after being stung by Shelob it was Sam that kept them going, but in the end Frodo even predicted (or maybe more than predicted?) Gollums demise on the slopes of Mt. Doom: “If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.”
For me this is kind of the point of his whole character: He isn’t particularly strong or mighty, but he keeps going and eventually fulfills his impossible quest through courage, wisdom and restraint. He most likely wouldn’t have come far on his own, but without him there was no hope at all.
GigaChad, Hobbit edition
I’m really hoping someone else puts up some sidekicks that were half as cool as Sam, I can’t really think of any off the top of my head.
They all went home, because it’s a no contest. Except for Penfold - the world’s worst assistant. He stayed because there’s a punch bowl after the contest.
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