Edit: Stickying some relevant “war reporting” from the comments to the post body, in a hopefully somewhat chronological order. Thanks for diving into the trenches everybody!
So the “and convicted felon” part of the screenshot that is highlighted was in the first sentence of the article about Donald Trump. After the jury verdict it was added and then removed again pretty much immediately several times over.
Then the article got editing restrictions and a warning about them (warning has been removed again):
During these restrictions there is a “RfC” (Request for Comments) thread held on the talk page of the article where anybody can voice their opinion on the matter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Donald_Trump#RfC_on_use_of_"convicted_felon"_in_first_sentence
Money quote:
There’s a weird argument for **slight support**. Specifically because if we don’t include it in the first paragraph somewhere, either the first sentence or in a new second sentence, there are going to be edit wars for the next 2-6 years. Guninvalid (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
There is a second battlefield going on in the infobox on the side (this has also been removed again at this point in time):
The article can apparently only be edited by certain more trusted users at the moment, and warnings about editing “contentious” parts have been added to the article source:
To summarise, here is a map of the status quo on the ground roughly a day after the jury verdict:
His bio at 8:48pdt
Being debated on the Talk page
You’re fuckin kidding me.
I haven’t edited a wiki page, so maybe I’m missing something. Isn’t that an accurate statement? Until yesterday we didn’t know the verdict, and we still need the sentencing. Both of those absolutely should be added to the page once result are known. Hence why information would/will change.
They’ve locked the article, and it still states the ‘criminal status’.
Conservatives are in there arguing we can’t call him a convicted felon until he’s exhausted his appeals.
The double standard by conservatives is just… stupid. That’s not how the legal system works. He is now a convicted felon. In a normal American’s world, Donnie would be waiting for sentencing, and often he could be sent to jail to wait for this sentence to occur, before he’s sent to prison(or probation, or home arrest, or whatever). The right to an appeal does not make him “sorta kinda, not a criminal, yet”. If he wasn’t who he is, he’d be in prison for 3-5 years, maybe 10.
Now, Donnie must file an appeal. This takes a while because he needs to prove the conviction was in error, new evidence, something wrong about his defense attorneys or jury tampering. The judge then needs to approve or deny this. Denied appeals, go up the justice food chain to the next court, and the next, and all the way to the Supreme Court who can all but void that conviction and Donnie gets his appeal (unlikely they even view the case). But hey, let’s pretend he somehow gets an appeal.
Now, 2-6 years from now (because our justice system is slow), Donnie can have another trial and have his conviction overturned. But this time he’ll need to basically bribe, threaten and distort all the criminal charges that they used against him.
Is unlikely his conviction will be overturned. His appeals process is just going to muddy the waters, but never bring anything to help. His one saving grace will be the “one juror” he knew would hang the jury, who could say he was forced, or something, to vote guilty.
Until this soap opera is over, Donnie is still a convicted felon. There is no gray area. Ask any other “innocent“ convicted felons serving time while they wait for appeals. Appeals don’t make them less convicted.
I get that folks are engaged for various reasons, but Wikipedia isn’t at it’s best when it comes to current events. I feel like that battle will slow as time passes.
Still - a big thank you to those who strive to combat misinformation.
*And you make a great point. Make the edits to Trump’s page after the dust settles and there is no argument about the facts.
Oh his page is going to be locked for years after this if they don’t allow any inclusion. It’s the only way to prevent it from being repeatedly added. We’ll see how it goes. For what it’s worth half the problem seems to be that he has a leading sentence instead of a leading paragraph.
Should be because of election interference via business fraud
Hey you guys I just had an amazing thought, wouldn’t it be amazing if he just sort of accidentally dropped dead of natural causes or whatever so we could be relieved of all this nonsense? And Biden too…
seriously, imagine what a huge relief that would be.
of course politics would just replace them with some other yahoos up there but can we just move on already…
Its why I really wish I had a death note. So many names to put into to make the world a bit better
First order of business: Googling the name and picture of every Republican member of the House, the Senate, and the SCOTUS.
You know I do kinda wonder what effect that would have culturally, especially if that became a kind of trend or mainstay. Like, obviously a big investigation would take place as to the cause of death. Doubt they would come up with anything, but obviously, huge scandal. After that, do the successors keep getting killed since they’d probably be the same or worse, or what happens? What would happen in response to that? Would they rename the party, launch further investigations, would they attempt to dissolve the party? Would they attempt to believe in different ideals out of a kind of fear or natural selection, or what? Would they all just devolve into extremely conspiratorial thought as they desperately tried to ward it off?
I mean, if they figured it out, then they might even just start putting them out under aliases or fake names or something.
What happens when the government figures out who is in possession of the death note and arrests them/confiscates the death note? I don’t know what’s scarier, some rogue nobody with the death note or the United States Government.
I mean the government pretty much already has a death note, of a kind. If you’re not Gary Webb, then they could always just slip some shit in your water main or whatever, or otherwise just kinda kill you however they want. So it’s not all that useful for them to have, other than being cheaper and maybe making some political assassinations much easier.
Aging 2024
lol Biden?? What did he do to you?
Absolutely nothing but at least we can get some non geriatric presidential nominee.
After Trump dies
I’d rather have genocide joe over kamala tbh
Twice impeached, convicted rapist and 34-time smelly felon ‘Sleepy Don’ Donald Trump…
I am all for mentioning his conviction in the 1st sentence, but the crowd saying it should go into the 2nd sentence make some good points.
Barely anyone gets to have “convicted felon” in their lead sentence. Firstly, it is poor style unless the person is only known because they did a crime, secondly, convicted felon can mean a lot of thing and should be specified. “Convicted of falsifying business records” is just so much more specific, and can later be added with “and election interference”.
In any case, while the discussion is ongoing it has been included in a 2nd sentence, and the editors supporting to move it to first sentence seem to be the majority.
If only more of them would read the whole discussion, instead of just saying “Support due to being established fact”.It’s already locked and even the talk page is restricted. Past that Wikipedia won’t even let me log in to participate.
Not going to be surprised when this magically disappears.
He’s also THE LIVING INCARNATION OF THE CHRIST and shit. don’t mock the incontinence diapers, that shit’s not funny.
“Trial’s over. Donnie’s a convicted felon. The judge out front should have told ya.”
Pakistan and India pages: amateurs
No cause for panic. The letters just got scrambled over the inter-webs: he’s not a convicted felon , he’s a convinced melon. There are many varieties of melons of course, for example watermelons, bitter melons, and musk melons.
Wiki is a circlejerk of people who have gotten their digital power and want to play pretend that they’re doing something important, something that has gravitas. So they’ll have a “discussion” for a week on whether the first president convicted of 34 felonies is a “significant” fact. This is what brain dead “neutrality” looks like.
It’s not like they’re arguing over something emergent like pulling a drowning man to shore or something though. And it’s a better system than the closed encyclopedias where the facts are whatever the company determines. So while it sucks that we have to have a discussion to tell the trump supporters they can’t censor Wikipedia (again) it’s better than the alternatives.
He’s right about arguing whether it is significant fact or not. It is absolutely a significant fact.
Of course it is. The point here is the process itself protects that neutrality. You can’t skip it just because it’s obvious to 2/3rds of us.
Wikipedia should turn the IP addresses to the police and the far-right net vandalism should be criminalized.
Yup. Because those are the IP addresses they’re going to go after and accuse of vandalism. Totally.
