Please don’t flame me too bad, I understand that although privacy and libre software are important to many in the Linux community, my opinions may be outside the scope of consideration for some and I respect that.
Personally, conscientious consumerism and privacy are some of the primary reasons I use Linux. I prefer community>private business>corporate when I am choosing products and services.
-System76
About 8 years ago I purchased a laptop from System76, the customer service was incredible and the machine exceeded my expectations in build quality and performance.
Recently I’ve been in the market for a smaller machine, like a Thinkpad X1, StarBook 14 or System76 Lemur.
Last week, when I visited the System76 website they used Plausible’s open source analytics on the home page (which is a great alternative to Google’s proprietary hardware fingerprinting algorithm), but once I added the laptop to my cart to checkout, I noticed the third-party trackers, apis.google and ajax.googleapis load on the webpage. Google’s reCAPTCHA was also required to complete the purchase. Hell, even Discord has switched to hCaptcha at this point citing their laughable “Gamer Privacy First” policy.
IMHO, I find it hypocritical that System76 does so much great work disabling Intel’s IME and contributing to coreboot, but chooses to embed proprietary tracking software on their website when open source alternatives are readily available.
- Reaching out to System 76
After completing 14 reCAPTCHA’s I was finally able to get a dialogue with Stetson at System 76. He said that “System 76 takes user data privacy and security extremely seriously, but they would continue to use Google services.” His recommended solution was placing the order over the phone if I wasn’t comfortable having third-party tracking during checkout.
This is not a solution for me because I don’t want to do business with a company that monetizes user data for profit. In my experience, companies that monetize data (Alphabet, Meta, etc…) offer web services cheaper than competitors that don’t, in exchange for access to user data. So, if you’re getting a commercial service cheaper from a company that sells your user’s data, you’re also profiting from the sale by paying a lower premium for those services.
Personally, I do not think you’re taking user privacy “extremely” seriously if you’re running third party trackers and choosing reCAPTCHA (not a privacy respecting service) over hCaptcha on your website.
I really like System 76 and I want to support them with my next purchase, but presently I feel like they are saying one thing and doing another and choosing privacy respecting libre software some of the time when it suits their marketing, but proprietary anti-consumer tracking services when it’s more profitable.
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It’s not as simple as you think it is. First, we use Plausible instead instead of Google Analytics, so tracking data is not being given to Google. If the choice was purely up to System76’s web team, use of Google services wouldn’t be required. However, you’ll be hard pressed to find any online store that accepts online payments without a captcha service, because most payment processors require it. System76’s payment processor also requires it, and will not allow you to substitute your own solution or bypass that requirement. Same as said here: https://lemmy.world/comment/3137069
Customer services and other web-facing frontends are also a constant target of attacks, so a captcha service is required.
Stripe is one of the largest payment providers on the Internet, they recommend hCaptcha, not Alphabet’s reCAPTCHA in their docs, so it’s obviously a choice. Please don’t proclaim to be “Extremely concerned” with customer privacy and choose a service provided by a data harvesting advertising company to save money when a privacy preserving option is available.
they recommend hCaptcha, not Alphabet’s reCAPTCHA in their docs
From : https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/prevention/card-testing#captcha
Card testers often use automated scripts that can be blocked using a CAPTCHA. Google’s reCAPTCHA is often effective for blocking card testing.
Read that document a bit closer. They recommend Google reCAPTCHA.
Michael, thank you for responding, but Google’s reCAPTCHA isn’t only required for payment on your site, it’s required just to send a message for customer service or to contact sales as I have done both recently. There are plenty of payment provider’s that to not mandate Google services. Personally I enjoy a lot of Google services when I choose to use them, but being mandated to use Google, as my child is forced to do attending school makes me wonder we companies like System 76 perpetuate this trend of the government and private industry forcing people to use services instead of letting consumers make the choice themselves in the so-called “free market.”
Customer services and other web-facing frontends are a constant target of attacks, so a captcha service is required. This whole comment is hyperbole, honestly.
They just resell Chinese laptops anyway, or used to. I opted for a Framework laptop this time.
I got the Pangolin, and have no regrets, but yea if I was in the market again I too would be going with Framework
Man they look awesome but I can’t drop $2k on a laptop. We don’t all have US software engineering salaries ;)
Get a used one after the hype dies down :P
My Framework 12th gen was $1100
They are not “resold”. The laptops are custom-ordered and manufactured in Taiwan. The same as virtually every computer you buy. Taiwan would be very unhappy to see comments claiming they’re Chinese.
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I agree with you. Purism had this same problem at one point I believe - turns out that the Wordpress plugins that they used for their site came bundled with Google crap.
It’s possible this wasn’t an intentional choice by anyone at S76, but instead just spyware bundled with other components.
Both businesses should know to evaluate their dependencies for these sorts of things, but mistakes do happen. It’s good that concerned community members exist to call them out, even if they have no plans to change it.
It’s not a matter of bundling, but because virtually every online payment processor requires it.
I agree with your stance, and I can also acknowledge what other people are saying, about not being able to find companies anymore, that aren’t willing to sell your information to multi-billion dollar targeted-ad companies. I would do what a couple other people, in this post, mentioned. Buy a used laptop/desktop, in cash, that supports coreboot. To my knowledge, anything past an i5 can’t fully remove all of the IME blobs, anyways. If you want something for gaming, and don’t want to support/contribute to the funneling of personal data, I would build a desktop from parts that work well with Linux, from a store like MicroCenter.
I was very disappointed in my Serval.
It never got a firmware update that it sorely needed. Maybe 1 hr battery life?
I personally think they should just focus on Pop_OS! .
I’m much happier with the laptop I ran out and grabbed from a big box store to replace the 2k+ one I bought from system 76.
I personally think they should just focus on Pop_OS! .
Pop!_OS does not generate any revenue. It would cease to exist without System76 hardware sales.
You’re worried about Google trackers on their website but you were gonna potentially buy a Lenovo Thinkpad? Lololol
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here a list of alternatives:
