If anything, RFK will split the Republican (Russian) vote
This author is a dipshit
I don’t know this author, but when I see articles like this I always think it’s a reverse Hanlon’s razor. I refuse to believe the people reporting on it are stupid and assume they’re fucking evil.
I said this in another post, but i believe older democrats who dont keep up with the nonsense of politics could very well just see the name Kennedy and vote for him. If we werent in a very red state i would be worried about my grandfather in his 80s doing exactly that.
They run this same story about third party candidates every election year. The problem is they never show that the people who voted for the third party candidate would’ve definitely gone to one party or the other. People know what’s at stake, why do you assume people voting for RFK Jr would’ve voted for Biden? There’s nothing about his platform that is very left leaning. The most left leaning thing about him is his last name.
Edit: Just as an example, I voted for Nader in 2000. I’m someone who would’ve voted for Gore otherwise. But guess what? I was voting in a state that wasn’t in close contention at all, so I could vote for a third party without really changing the calculus of who would get elected. The idea that votes for third parties are fungible with votes for major party candidates is just not accurate.
Because it’s true every time, and it works a lot. Gore would have won if Nader wasn’t on the ticket, and guess what? The Republicans have been propping up third-party candidates for years.
Hell, in Florida they got some random dude on the ticket just because he had the same name as the Democrat – and it worked.
Intuitively it doesn’t even make sense in this case though. Biden is running as the safe ordinary establishment candidate. Trump and RFK Jr are going for the right wing wacko conspiracy theory crowd.
Unless I see data to the contrary, I’m going to assume that RFK Jr siphons more votes from Trump.
I know several people that have fallen for his bullshit who voted for Biden last time.
Pollsters do ask “if the election was held today, between X and Y, who would you vote for”, for multiple combinations of candidates, so you can infer some of those opinions. I don’t think they explicitly ask people to rank their choices, or at least I haven’t seen those polls.
Well, there were a certain number of disaffected Sanders primary voters that switched to Trump when Clinton “won” the primary in 2016. It’s hard to believe, given how diametrically opposed Sanders and Trump are, but there it is. Why would they go from a moderate candidate to a far right one? I don’t know, and it’s really hard to pin down in the data.
That’s kind of the problem we have now. Why would someone that was a Biden supporter flip to RFK, when RFK is very clearly significantly to the right, and way off in crazy-land compared to Biden? I don’t know. But given how likely Trump supporters are to show up, Biden really can’t afford to lose too many to RFK. Or West, for that matter, who is closer to what I’d prefer politically.
I believe the latest polls show Bobby Kennedy Jr. taking slightly more support from Trump. It makes sense. In order to support Kennedy, you have to listen to him first.
The conspiracy theorist label stops the left from even considering him. The voters who are more likely to give him a chance are on the right. They don’t care if he’s called a conspiracy theorist.
now that he’s made a decision, it really just takes one look at who his running mate is that would cause any Leftist to walk away.
The problem is the people running the DNC
At some point, we’re going to have to make an actual left wing party. Because the only thing the national DNC cares about is money
They don’t even know how to spend it effectively when they get it.
Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won’t work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you’re gonna have to change FPTP first.
Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.
Isn’t that what they said?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier
Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn’t really say it was redundant.
This is what the DSA has been trying to do and succeeding in for 30 years with candidates like AOC
The Communist Party is a fed honeypot
Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?
converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.
They’re a private organization…
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn’t is momentum.
If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already
The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really bitch about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Reorganized from the ground up… to be exactly the same. They’re not left.
This is Pelosi telling progressives and the left to F off… https://youtu.be/MR65ZhO6LGA
Pelosi doesn’t pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That’s the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should’ve learned with AOC and Crowley.
The DNC is a national political party organization
Nope, it’s a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.
That’s how they’re legally registered and that’s how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to
Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up
How adorably naive you are! 🥹
Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven’t changed since then and won’t no matter how much the people they’re supposed to represent do.
It’s actually a pretty
well created organizational systemwell-orchestrated political and financial machineFixed it for you
the only people who really bitch about it are
they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of itpeople who understand how it ACTUALLY works and would prefer a more open, honest and representative partythe crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.
Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo… 🙄
Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?
The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.
There’s no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it’s happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.
They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.
How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We’ve gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you’re upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie’s first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.
It’s funny the way this thread went. I don’t think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.
- The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime who instead pulled up their seat at the table and effected change.
- The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime and who wouldn’t compromise with anyone and quickly became irrelevant but still cried that the system was still rigged (while their compatriots looked on in disgust lamenting the extra power to affect change they would have if they would vote as a block).
- Those who got in and then tried to pull the ladder up to prevent themselves from losing their position the same way they accused others of doing.
Completely agree, I really don’t know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.
I’m pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it’s incredibly relevant.
If you don’t like the policies of the moderate Democrats then volunteer for your local party, most of the people running your county party are old as fuck, that’s one of the main problems with the Dems. Vote in every single primary for the most progressive option. Donate to and volunteer for your progressive state representatives/senators. Help your coworkers organize a union and increase your lobbying power. Join a progressive/socialist election work group like Progressive Victory or any of the countless others. If you aren’t doing at least one of these regularly, then you have no right to complain that the party isn’t listening to you. You’ve given them no reason to.
I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commenting about the malevolent DNC have done these, and kept doing them since the Bernie campaigns.
We should all know by now that that’s not how it’s going to have to work. The way to change politics in a country isn’t from the outside. It’s not even from the inside really, it’s by getting inside and then tearing out all the support beams of fixtures and rebuilding it from the inside out. That’s what conservatives under the Republican party for the last 15 to 20 years. They completely took over the party ousted all the ones that were too moderate for them, they rebuilt their party from the inside to be what it is today. Leftists are going to have to have the discipline to do the same.
And what about the people running the RNC?
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I love how democrats scream about a few thousand votes every election. Why is it that democrats cut it so close with a fascist, racist, sexist, dogshit party every election? The democrats should consider that they’re doing a shit job and should work to improve themselves instead of shrieking “but other guy!!!” every single election and claiming that everything cost them the election except for themselves. If they lose the election they smugly say “look how right we are with how bad things are!” and if they win the election they smugly say “we won so we must be doing something right, let’s keep the shitty status quo going!”
Uhh huh. You seriously think any of the voters that we lose to RFK Jr or West care at all about things like policy or actions of democrats in office? Reality has no place in that discussion. Unless democrats start going for the fringe conspiracy nutter vote, those votes are a lost cause
I would love it if that were the view that most Democrats had - then I could vote for the people I like in peace. Unfortunately, every day we get a new “vote blue no matter the genocide” post trying to shame people into voting for Biden. I pray to one day be a lost cause who isn’t worth being yelled at (the earlier the better).
I’m pretty sure everyone cares about their own well-being. I haven’t been paying much attention to RFK Jr since he’s a non-factor, but at a glance I can see why some would like his policies: https://www.usatoday.com/elections/voter-guide/2024-11-05/candidate/robert-f-kennedy
Yes, there is the whole conspiracy theory thing, but I don’t think entire groups of people should be completely written off as crazy since people’s justifications and motivations aren’t so straightforward. I often see democrats claiming that we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good when it comes to faults with their favored candidate, but this luxury isn’t afforded to other candidates. If support for genocide can be overlooked, I’m sure far lesser things can be as well (though RFK Jr is the same on support for Israel/genocide as Biden).
Shhh
Democrats are so used to sniffing their own farts that they don’t realize how bad they smell.
The only person who I’ve heard be in love with RFK Jr. was a former Trump voter.
A better title would be:
RFK Jr. can’t win. But he and Cornel West could make Biden lose the White House.
If Biden loses it will be because of Biden and his 4 years of doing absolutely nothing and not getting anything he promised In to law. Also the genocide. As shitty as it sounds people can overlook the genocide if Biden was actually improving people’s lives but they are only getting worse under his presidency.
Yeah keep blaming everything except the fact that Biden has assumed dig shit policies since last summer.
And getting Trump back in the WH is the answer to that?
You know this straw-man you’ve committed to is losing us the election, don’t you?
Look at the polling, look at the primaries. Biden has to do better on his own merit. Trump being bad is Trumps issue, not something that will get Biden elected.
This insistence from the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic party that this is how to run a campaign has basically handed the election to Trump. Stop it. Stop giving the election away. Do better.
What makes you think Biden has done nothing? What do you want him to do better in a divided government?
I think he’s done lots of great things.
RFK doesn’t appeal to Democratics
No they can’t
Spoiler Effect
Nader 2000, anyone?
RFK is way more appealing to the maga crowd than mainstream or progressive Dems.
How about Cornell West?
Who? I’ve literally never heard of this person prior to now. And I’d like to think I stay fairly up-to-date on US politics.
So yeah, I’m going to go with probably not.
He’s pretty well known among the folks that are big on social justice and environmental issues. I would argue that he’s the biggest name to be on the Green ticket since Nader.
And he doesn’t have to be know by everyone to fuck over Biden. This is going to be a close race. Spoiling a race means that it could come down to a few more votes than normal for the Greens.
Edit: he’s running as an independent now.
The best way to discredit him is with his stance on Ukraine.
https://www.newsweek.com/cornel-west-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-1812320
He’s going the with “NATO forced them to” talking point, and he’s against additional funding for Ukraine. I don’t think many people truly on the left will pick him over Biden. Let’s hope not, at least.
To be fair, he’s against the US providing international military aid and funding across the board, not just Ukraine.
he never said NATO forced them he said it’s illegal.
West isn’t green
TIL he left the Green Party a few months ago. He was green until last fall.
nader didn’t put bush in the whitehouse
Definitely debatable. Nader had 97k votes in Florida, and Gore needed about 500.
There are a number of variables that arguably screwed Gore. The ballot format, the chads, the court, the completion from the left, etc. Many argue that removing any one of those variables could’ve likely tipped things for Gore.
Gore won florida
The point is that you’re more vulnerable to shenanigans with a tight margin.
let’s put blame for Bush’s presidency on bush
And SCOTUS handing it to him, of course.
Also Roger Stone and the rest of the Brooks Brothers Riot ratfuckers for delaying and disrupting the recount enough to give SCOTUS cover for their ridiculous decision to weigh in at all.
Going to back to the point of this thread. Someone like West is not going to win. Vote for him if you want, but if you’re in a state that is going to be tight, voting for him will make it easier for the far right candidate to get certified.
Same song and dance from the 2 party machine. The way the political system is. This isnt democracy and I’d rather see trump elected purely so he can implode the system. And it’d be entirely the democrats own fault for falling into complete corruption and ineffectuality. Biden is bank rolling and arming a genocide, hes been nothing but a puppet president his entire term and the democratic party has become a corrupt oligarchy just the same as the republicans. This 2 party system is given power only by the willing consent and active participation of the american people. And I think its time that the american people said enough is enough and abolished the two existing political parties completely so that we can form a functional democracy instead of this corporate klepto clown show.
RFK isnt a perfect candidate but hes the best political candidate iv seen run for officeoin my lifetime.
Trump might implode the current system, but a functional democracy won’t replace it. It would become a one party system in the style of Russia, trump has been clear enough about that.
Oh no if only Biden could adopt left wing policies and stop doing Genocide then he could get those voters!
No wait they are obliged to vote for God Emperor Biden! The Genocide must flow!!
Or go with West who supports the genocide in Ukraine. Either way we get to have a genocider!
west does not support genocide anywhere
Neither does Biden
biden is literally shipping weapons and cash to a genocide.
And West refuses to support Ukraine’s defense against a genocide.
he has never said that.
It’s his view
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/biden-war-criminal-cornel-west/
He almost never criticizes Putin’s genocidal acts in Ukraine… just NATO… and repeats Putins talking points about giving up and giving Putin larger parts is their sovereign country( a “peacec treaty”). It’s as though he has no clue that Putin would just attack again exactly like after Crimea.
Somone call 911 his brain is dead!
