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When I look at those numbers I think “Apollo was made by 1 dude with some occasional help from another person. Reddit is throwing half its budget and 200+ bodies at its app and site, and it’s a fucking disaster.”
Different goals. The goal of Apollo was to make a good app. The goal of the official reddit app is to show you ads and siphon money off you.
I guarantee you a good chunk of that R&D money is for making ads more profitable and other monetization.
To be fair, the point of Apollo was to also make money. But it was to make money by selling you things that made a nice experience nicer. Reddit makes money by selling you stuff that makes a shitty experience slightly less shitty.
I said it before on Reddit and I will say it again here—
If Reddit has asked me for a premium subscription to use my favourite third-party app, I would have fucking paid.
Just bad business all around
I don’t know the right price point, but 1 dollar a month probably would have worked for most people. It just wasn’t enough because they probably can make more than 1 by spoon feeding you ads now.
I’d go as far as 5 dollars a month, which is more than the buck thirty they make off users right now.
It just boggles the mind.
They had the userbase. They had the community moderation. They had the power-users basically doing their job for them. They could have had a bulletproof, tied-to-world-population-growth metric - not super fast, but basically monotonically increasing. They basically could have turned it into a sustainable money printer, while not crushing user enthusiasm. Hell, they could have even done an opt- in policy for ML training datasets, either offsetting or outright paying users a commission for content that’s used as part of a training set. There were so many possibilities that didn’t involve pointing the ship at an iceberg.
Spez threw it away because he wanted the quick payout from ad revenue.
Spez threw it away because he’s a libertarian tool. He doesn’t care how he gets the payout as long as it’s not ‘collectivist’. This commie shit your’e spouting in this post would not impress daddy Elon. GTFO.
Active users would, I probably would too. Problem is most apps would struggle to even get new users with that system.
100% I did pay for the premium version of Apollo and I absolutely would have paid about £20 a month for access.
It was the #1 most used app on all my devices.
20 a month?! No way in hell reddit app access is worth that.
Not now perhaps, but then it was. To me. I’d not pay them a farthing now.
Same here. I spend all my farthings at the taffee shoppe, or the cobblers.
I‘d say about £5 a month would be suitable for lurkers, with additional options for when your "contingent“ is used up
Didn’t that become an option at some point? I’m sure I’ve read there are apps you can pay for to have access. Fuck that, though. Make it a reasonable price, too, and I’d listen. No way I’m paying a fiver a month for reddit. Maye 1 or 2.
Apps can pay in a ridiculous deal that no app would be able to support. So you either be a pay app that no one downloads, or a free app that gets killed the second it gets too big (And that number was low)
Recently I stumbled on Relay, still going strong with a subscription model (because API fees).
That said, I refuse to return to that platform.
You can patch old third-party apps with ReVanced. That being said, they are unmaintained and will still eventually break.
The funny ouroborous here is new reddit is shitty because no one at reddit team actually use it to know it.
The goal of Apollo was to make a good app. The goal of the official reddit app is to show you ads and siphon money off you.
Spot fucking on.
Ever have a good app? Something you like using but it’s by a corporation but that’s ok, because it’s a good app and does what you want? And then they start adding more features to it, and it slows down, and it’s more annoying and it keeps offering services you don’t want, and it changes and it morphs and it becomes a shit app.
Hell I’ve watched Whisk become something I liked using to something worthless now it’s Samsung food… Switched to using CopyMeThat which actually also gets me recipes from sites that you can’t just read the recipes from, and that’s ALL it does (well recipe book/shopping cart/meal planning, which is what it’s designed for.)
I’m just sick of “How do we make more money” instead of just being an app that does what it says. Gaming is going down the same hole, sadly.
This is the inevitable long term goal and result of capitalism.
This is the result of shareholders. Capitalism doesn’t have to turn into this and people can have small businesses that are comfortable and don’t grow. But when you get investment involve the question is always “how do you ‘grow this business’ so I can get a ROI”.
There’s a few cases where that’s not the case, but the majority of the mindset of the modern business world is fast returns, rather than sustainable growth.
Always going to upvote someone talking about CopyMeThat. Been a premium member for over a decade, it was a game changer for us.
I also quit whisk when it became samsung food. Does CopyMeThat let you have shared lists with other people?
It does have a “Community” aspect, but honestly I think it’s quite weak on that. however if you have someone you know and their recipes are public you can see them, but not in any organized sense.
Dang, the shared grocery list and meal planning was the best part of it.
My wife and I just share our account which has worked perfect though I’m really the one who cooks so the recipe list becomes mine as well.
That sounds nice, I’ll try that out
I get your point and you’re not wrong, technically . Technically that is what Reddit is trying to do but you need to remember that this is Reddit. They fucking suuuuuck at everything.
I remember years ago a disaffected ex employee wrote something about what it’s like to work the and in just remember thinking to myself: “Imagine going in to work and they call an important meeting, all hands, to discuss “brigading” and then, without an ounce of irony they proceed to sternly discuss this important topic.”
Just imagine those little snot nosed shots puffed up with so much self importance discussing how these “brigades” are destroying their “bastion of free speech”.
I thought I was going to pule in my own mouth again just typing this.
We just have to look at how much the CEO and COO paid themselves last year to know the whole thing is just a huge grift.
The comparison is even more apt when you remember that the official Reddit app also used to be the most popular and great 3rd-party app called AlienBlue, which was purchased from 1 guy and rebranded a decade ago.
It’s pretty clear that the reason why the official Reddit app isn’t good is because a good experience for their users isn’t their goal.
The fact that the app is still so bad after so much time has gone by indicates that it is the desired product that the company wants to offer. And after realizing that they were still losing users to better competitors, their solution was to destroy the ability to compete in the first place rather than improve the product.
They like the app as-is, with all of the terrible performance and UX that goes along with it. The reason behind that is because they’re getting user engagement metrics and other telemetry data, more control over ad delivery and the content users see (including astroturfed sponsored Reddit content), and more monetization.
Third party apps, like Apollo and AlienBlue before it, cared about providing a good user experience. It just happens that users typically prefer experiences that aren’t trying to capitalize their every interaction, and companies take that personally.
I’ve started using Geddit, a 3rd party app that doesn’t use the Reddit API. And it’s still better than the app they develop in-house.
I rarely visit Reddit, but when searching for something niche there always seems to be a few threads over there sadly.
Alien Blue wasn’t rebranded. They bought it, called it the official app (with the name Alien Blue) for a little while, then launched their own app and stopped supporting AB.
Oh I see; I knew they stopped supporting it after a while but I thought the official app was a descendent of that codebase
If it was, it might actually be useable
You can also see this with the old website being much better than the new one and apparently there’s an even newer one that people who like the old new one generally hate.
a good experience for their users isn’t their goal
They are in tension with the more pressing goal of extracting revenue. But how do you extract revenue from a site that’s mostly just “user content” + “ads” in an era when ad revenue is plummeting?
Maybe if they increase the prices on Reddit Gold?
They got rid of Reddit Gold and other awards. It’s now “super upvotes” or something to that effect.
Another difference was I was willing to pay for Apollo, whereas I don’t want to spend a dime on Reddit.
Apollo… the wound that never heals.
This is one of those rare cases where what is being said is less interesting than who says it.
What: Reddit stock is junk, the IPO will fail hard, and anyone investing on it is begging to lose money. I believe that most people discussing this in Lemmy already know that, so the info isn’t new here.
Who: Forbes. Forbes’ target audience is investors; greedy vulture capitalists love it. So if Forbes says “it’ll sink!”, investors are less eager to buy stock, and that sinks the stonks even further. So what Forbes says is often a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I’m glad that Forbes is doing it. I want to see Reddit die.
EDIT: as other posters are correctly highlighting, I derped - the article is from a “contributor”, and it has basically no impact or visibility.
Damn - now I want Forbes shitting on the IPO!
“Forbes” is not the Forbes you are referring to. It’s a blogging platform that shows the forbes name and claims they’re “Contributors” but isn’t actually “Forbes Magazine” which is what investors actually trust.
Basically this is just some shitbag pretending to be classy by hiding behind someone who sold him that space. There’s a ton of shit Video Game “Articles” on the site too, same story(masquerade), same value (low) , same respectability (none)
Don’t talk shit about Paul Tassi, he’s the best thing they have going on that part of the site (when he’s not going off about Dedstiny 2)
Yes it’s a bit confusing with that “Forbes” name?
But the article is good IMO, and has many 100% valid points.
What could have been done to increase the valuation higher and maintain goodwill with the community:
- Cut CEO pay by 90%
- Pay mods as employees, think of the GM/guide structure of early mmos where you start as a volunteer for a free sub but can work your way up
- Subscriptions to remove ads
- Push ads in API for third party apps to host your ads, remove for subscribed users
- Profit sharing from ads and subs with top content creators
It baffles me they didn’t take the obvious approach of offering apps/API access for Premium users, only turning it into a billable thing for LLMs. They’re not going to pay for the API, they will scrape the site. Your users will! That’s a great source of revenue that can last as long as reddit does.
But no, they wanted that LLM money.
The refusal to seriously explore cross API marketing is absolutely nuts to me. That’s reddit’s billion dollar innovation and it was right there. Everything was in place, and it would have legitimately set reddit apart from every other shitty social media marketing paradigm, and would have been an actual game changing innovation.
All they needed was to put some actual engineering effort into it. Which I guess explains why they didn’t even fucking try.
Mods could be paid on a bounty system with salary or clocked hourly higher-tier mods to oversee moderation to prevent scamming. The higher tier mods would be paid more based on traffic with that ad profit sharing model.
Revert to the source code of about 10 years ago and get rid of most programmers. The only positive change in the last 10 years is the ability of users to ban people from harassing you.
Allow all subs to identify other subs they are similar too, and link all that information together so that users who don’t like how sub is moderated can find an official list of alternative subs.
Allow only temporary bans, not permanent bans from mods. Admins can still give permanent bans for bad faith or dishonest actors and should do so for foreign governments trying to influence other countries.
Allow subs to optionally require flair identifying citizenships and if you are found to be dishonest you can get site ban.
Get rid of certain pieces of automod functionality that subtract value for the users of the site.
Great article and very thorough, if you have interest in the subject, I’d say it’s a must read, despite the source. And I 100% agree that reddit would be a very risky stock to buy, with more chance of becoming worthless than actually make you money.
This is completely disregarding my personal opinion that reddit quality has deteriorated for years, because sometimes even poor quality can be a great money maker, when it has achieved market dominance or critical mass in its segment, and no doubt reddit has done that.
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Oh just Forbes totally destroying Reddit.
Dude does NOT like reddit. I wonder which app he liked?
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That you, Steve Huffman?
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Future penny stock.
I think it’s worth less than that. But “reddit gold stock” doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.
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Only if the the accurate bot population is never disclosed. If people found out how much of Reddit is bots, the value would drop.
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Yeah, they are getting that Google bump. Honestly I’d have bought a bit of IPO stock if it didn’t require giving reddit my real info. I’m not that desperate though.
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I’ve never shorted a stock before, but this is looking like a solid play.
Looks like it’s finally time to bite the bullet and watch the big short.
If you really haven’t… you need to. Better yet read the book. It should be required reading in America to see how the financial institutions fucked over America in 2008 and most of them got away with it or got the government to pay for it’s mismanagement, while a LOT of people got saddled with absolutely awful loans because all that mattered was creating and selling new debt.
Ditch reddit, join lemmy!
Return Of
It never left, bro.
It’s a hard call on Reddit.
This article seems to leave out the reality that Reddit’s big win is data and an in built machine learning capability in what is good quality. For future AI and LLMs it’s actually a treasure trove of information that will only rise in value.
Realistically it’s had massively bad PR and issues but people still use it over Lemmy and many others, and Lemmy/others aren’t going to overcome it any time soon (if ever). So it doesn’t seem like it’s going to go away at end of day, and it’s still one of the best sources of information on the internet available.
At end of day it’s stocks so it’s coin flips all the way. No one beats the market consistently over time that doesn’t also utilise insider information.
Extremely well written and put together. Still, as harsh as it is, I think the author was still not harsh enough.
“[moderators] may be able to leverage their influence within those communities to change the dynamics of the discourse within the communities or to disrupt the normal operation of their communities or other communities on our platform.”
And they can give you rando-bans out of nowhere, suddenly cutting you off from your topic of interest and exposing serious flaws with the entire site.
sounds like a ripe opportunity for YOLO Stock Option Puts
They know WSB can tank their stock and there’s sweet fuck all they can do about it lol.
From the article:
Reddit earns an Unattractive Stock Rating.
Of course it does, have you seen the average redditor?
Absolutely savage
