• BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The question has always been what does one do when the renewables aren’t providing enough power (ex: nights, etc). The current solution is natural gas. It would be a big improvement if we would use a carbon-free source like nuclear instead.

    • 0xD21F@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Pumped-storage hydroelectricity is an old and proven method for load balancing intermittent power sources. Would like to see more of that as geography permits.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Actually it isn’t if you stop only looking at places that are also suitable as power plant, that is, have a big river flowing through them.

          You can do pumped hydro in an old mineshaft.

          • persolb@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Can you? To store the energy you need to pump up; to use it you need to flow back down. Where is the ‘down’ or ‘up’ from a mine shaft?

            I’d also question if the volume would be worth it.

            Edit: maybe you are thinking compressed air?

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              …the up is at the surface and the down is at the bottom of the mine shaft? I’m not talking about horizontal ones, of course. You let water in, generating power, and then, to regenerate empty space and with that the capacity to again generate power, you spend energy to pump it up.

              As to volume, there’s some gigantic mineshafts, but even small ones might warrant small installations it’s not like some pipes and a pump and generator are much of an investment. Of course, don’t try that in a salt mine geology will play an important part.

              And lastly: Mineshafts aren’t the only option. There’s a lot of mountains, and they have many sides, and also plateaus and valleys. Build two concrete basins, connect them via pipe, ship in water from somewhere, voila, pumped hydro storage.

              • persolb@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                I guess I wasn’t clear where on the surface the storage is. Do they still make a dam type area to store the ‘high’ water, or is it just a different part of the mine which is closer to the surface?

                I was able to find some mine numbers… yeah; insane. Especially something like an open cut mine which is functionally already lake shaped.

    • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Here’s an example of what can be done with 5 hours of storage. 5 hours is a 25% participation rate of V2G where the participants offer a third of their battery capacity.

      https://reneweconomy.com.au/a-near-100pct-renewable-grid-for-australia-is-feasible-and-affordable-with-just-a-few-hours-of-storage/

      If going with the (false) assumption that nuclear can hit 100% grid penetration, it would take decades to offset the carbon released by causing a single year of delay.

      The lowest carbon “let’s pretend storage is impossible and go with 100% nuclear” would still start with exclusively funding VRE.

        • rusticus@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          lol at a rando discrediting an article that gives supporting data. Did you even read it? Write your own well supported opinion and submit it here. We’ll wait.

          • prole@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Oh is that a new rule? You can’t point out garbage, bias sources unless you’ve written a dissertation on it? Fucking rube.

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                Great comeback. Very cute.

                But why don’t you go ahead and go get a juice box and let the adults speak.

                • rusticus@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  TIL an “adult” is someone who denigrates a link without even reading it or having any substantive data points to support their points. Sounds like you have plenty of juice boxes to give out.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      The growing idea is to just have a shit load of renewables, everywhere. The wind is always blowing somewhere, and the sun shines through the clouds. If you have a ridiculous excess total capacity then even when you’re running at limited capacity you could still cover the demand. Basically, most of our renewable infrastructure would actually be curtailed or offline a lot of the time.

    • relative_iterator@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      consumers may also help reduce system costs by adapting their electricity consumption to the availability of renewable energy

      From the linked paper. They mention some other options for storage like batteries (plenty of environmental issues there though) but based on the quoted text I have a hard time taking this seriously if they actually expect people to change their behavior.

      • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Plug in car. Press the “I would like to only pay $100/yr to fuel this please” button.

        Later when you leave for work press the “I would like the house to be cool when I get home and also want to pay half as much for AC” button.

        Buy the 1.5m wide water heater that stores 10kWh of hot water and lasts a week between heatings rather than the 70cm one that lasts a day.

        Such an unconscionable burden.

    • IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Nuclear is a terrible fit for peaker plants, that’s not how it works. If it isn’t selling energy at as close to 100% of the time as is feasible it’s losing money.

    • rusticus@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      The best solution is having EVs plugged into the grid at night. VTG is the easy solution to peaker needs.

      • DarthBueller@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Then you are getting into the issue of the power company eating up your charge cycles on your EV battery. Who pays for the fact that my battery now has half the design lifetime due to constant cycling because it’s feeding the grid?

        • rusticus@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          These are easily solved details. For example, by providing power on the grid you are in essence a power company. Perhaps you get reimbursed based upon what you provide. You know net metering is already a thing, right?

          • DarthBueller@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I’m just saying that we might need to get away from the idea that a car battery is solely an owner expense. They’d have to be subsidized or there would be huge equity issues. And yes “I do know about net metering,right.”

            • rusticus@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Yes you are correct in stating that if you used your car battery for grid usage you would need to get reimbursed for that. And I gave you an easy solution. This could actually be a profit center for EV owners and if you have your car plugged into the grid at peak times, you would get reimbursed more per kWh (ie TOU) with the net metering. Win/win for everybody except utilities and fossil fuel providers.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The renewables-only crowd is just ignorant about this simple fact.

      The future of energy will be dominated by solar and nuclear power. With hydro, geothermal and wind playing supporting roles, depending on geography.

      The only question is, how much fossil fuels do we burn until then?

      Those who oppose nuclear are really just in favour of burning fossil fuels in the interim. But the inevitable switch to nuclear will come as fossil fuels are depleted.

      Nature has given us the atom as the most dense and durable way to store energy. That will never change.

      • schroedingershat@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Typical energy density of ore in a new uranium mine burned in an LWR is about the same of coal.

        All of the economic/not too damaging stuff together would power the world for about 3 years.