I’ve been an IT professional for 20 years now, but I’ve mainly dealt with Windows. I’ve worked with Linux servers through out the years, but never had Linux as a daily driver. And I decided it was time to change. I only had 2 requirements. One, I need to be able to use my Nvidia 3080 ti for local LLM and I need to be able to RDP with multiple screens to my work laptop running Windows 10.
My hope was to be able to get this all working and create some articles on how I did it to hopefully inspire/guide others. Unfortunately, I was not successful.
I started out with Ubuntu 22.04 and I could not get the live CD to boot. After some searching, I figured out I had to go in a turn off ACPI in boot loader. After that I was able to install Ubuntu side by side with Windows 11, but the boot loader errored out at the end of the install and Ubuntu would not boot.
Okay, back into Windows to download the boot loader fixer and boot to that. Alright, I’m finally able to get into Ubuntu, but I only have 1 of my 4 monitors working. Install the NVIDIA-SMI and reboot. All my monitors work now, but my network card is now broken.
Follow instructions on my phone to reinstall the linux-modules-extra package. Back into Windows to download that because, you know, no network connections. Reinstall the package, it doesn’t work. Go into advanced recovery, try restoring packages, nothing is working. I can either get my monitors to work or my network card. Never both at the same time.
I give up and decide it’s time to try out Fedora. The install process is much smoother. I boot up 3 of 4 monitors work. I find a great post on installing Nvidia drivers and CUDA. After doing that and rebooting, I have all 4 monitors and networking, woohoo!
Now, let’s test RDP. Install FreeRDP run with /multimon, and the screen for each remote window is shifted 1/3 of the way to the left. Strange. Do a little looking online, find an Issue on GitHub about how it is based on the primary monitor. Long story short, I can’t use multiple monitor RDP because I have different resolution monitors and they are stacked 2x2 instead of all in a row. Trust me I tried every combination I could think of.
Someone suggested using the nightly build because they have been working on this issue. Okay, I try that out and it fails to install because of a missing dependency. Apparently, there is a pull request from December to fix this on Fedora installs, but it hasn’t been merged. So, I would need to compile that specific branch myself.
At this point, I’m just so sick of every little thing being a huge struggle, I reboot and go back into Windows. I still have Fedora on there, but who would have thought something that sounds as simple as wanting to RDP across 4 monitors would be so damn difficult.
I’m not saying any of this to bag on Linux. It’s more of a discussion topic on, yes, I agree that there needs to be more adoption on Linux, but if someone with 20 years of IT experience gets this feed up with it, imagine how your average user would feel.
Of course if anyone has any recommendation on getting my RDP working, I’m all ears on that too.
I read the first paragraph and saw your prerequisites included working with nvidia.
That is a non-starter, right there. You can blame Linux for a whole lot of little flaws, but most of the blame should go to your hardware vendor for providing shitty support for Linux.
Isn’t most of the AI training work in the world done on Linux using Nvidia GPUs (in the cloud)? I guess it’s a different use case…
thats guiless.
x11 and wayland support (what matters for DESKTOP use) are complete garbage
Popos has out-of-the-box nvidia support that works great
Non starter? As in you shouldn’t use Linux if you have a nvidia gpu? I hope that isn’t the take.
Microsoft is free to publish minimum requirements for Windows (TPM 2.0 for Windows 11, for instance), but you don’t have that in Linux. You are free to throw it at any hardware you want, and it will mostly work out of the box.
But that depends on companies and volunteers working on the hardware support. Intel and AMD provide good support for their hardware. NVidia does not. You should act accordingly, either buying supported hardware or sticking to software that supports your hardware (Windows or Mac).
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Having a nVidia GPU does not stop you from running Linux, it just makes it more painful depending on what you’re trying to achieve due to nVidia’s poor Linux support.
I merely suggest that one should use the appropriate tool for the job or endure the consequences. Blaming the tools achieves nothing.
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I agree. The majority of my issues come down to the manufacturers. I even updated my BIOS to see if it would help with the ACPI issues, but no luck. Motherboard is 3 years old, so it’s not like I’m trying this on brand new hardware either.
Nvidia is by far the most popular dedicated GPU manufacturer out there. If distros can’t figure out how to make it “just work” then Linux will never take off outside of the nerd market.
The problem is Nvidia’s drivers, not the distros.
You may as well be saying distros really need to get their shit together on releasing Photoshop for Linux
If someone with no experience installs Linux on their machine, and has to spend 20 hours fixing all of the problems they’re not going to stick with Linux. It doesn’t matter which distro it is, they’re just going to say Linux sucks and never use it again.
There’s a pretty big difference between trying to run software for X OS on Y OS, and trying to just make your computer do basic tasks. The average person doesn’t know that Nvidia are a bunch of assholes, nor do they care.
I know.
But there’s nothing that can realistically be done about it until Nvidia stops being dickheads.
Distros can’t constantly hop about putting out fires that Nvidia starts, and neglect the other work they need to do.
Even when they do that, it doesn’t work anyway. It’s still buggy, systems still break. It really is only Nvidia who can fix their shit drivers, unless the nouveau team make an alternative that’s superior to Nvidia’s proprietary drivers.
And nah, there’s no difference between my Nvidia/Photoshop example. None whatsoever.
but if someone with 20 years of IT experience gets this feed up with it, imagine how your average user would feel.
Do you think “your average user” would run into something like this? How many people are running 4 monitors?
I run 6 on 2 gpus and it’s Just Werked TM for a few years now. On a Core2 Duo machine even.
IT for 20 years
Can’t use a live CD
Uh huh
Guess I should have said love USB, but some old habits die hard. Either way having to go in and disable ACPI just to get it to boot is not something most people would be comfortable with.
love USB
That sounds funky, I like it!
Damn autocorrect
FUD
I mean… You’re expecting your system which likely shipped with support for Windows to just work with Linux. Linux support by vendors is often non-existent and requires oss developers to play catch up.
To be fair, that’s not much of a thing with windows
Have you met Windows admins? 😛
In fairness, I’ve seen some Linux admins become completely hopeless as soon as any GUI appears.
Multiple mistakes:
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You went with a very old distro, Ubuntu 22.04 is almost 2 years old. You could pick a non-lts ubuntu instead. Thankfully you ended up picking Fedora.
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A single google search could’ve given you better alternatives to FreeRDP like Remmina. You can always ask people stuff like this on Lemmy or elsewhere (“what’s the best rdp client on linux?”) rather than waiting till you run out of patience.
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You shouldn’t need to compile software by yourself, you can use flatpak to install newer versions of software and flathub even has a beta repo you can add for even newer software.
It’s not against you, we all learn from mistakes. Just try to be more social about your linux journey if you don’t want to struggle
Tldr: you made the classic mistake of going head first into this without a friend to help you or at least documenting yourself properly on the current state of Linux desktops through various medias like Youtube. It doesn’t help that you suffered from the ol’ “I’m a windows expert so this should be similar/easy and if it fails it’s not my fault”
Ubuntu 22.04 is not “very old”. It’s the latest LTS release of Ubuntu. I do not, at all, fault an IT professional for picking the LTS release instead of the absolute latest latest release.
I think it is a communication failure for Linux to not communicate that the jump between Linux distro versions (e.g. from Fedora 38 to Fedora 39) is not the same as a jump from Windows 8 to Windows 10. It is similar to the jump between the different Windows subversions, like from 21H2 to 22H2. Most people don’t even know what those numbers mean, and for most people, it doesn’t matter. A distro upgrade is nothing more than a big update, and that’s how I think it ought to be presented. People should be encouraged to use the non-LTS version as a default, and gently nudged to upgrade once a new one comes out. It shouldn’t be presented as a conplete change in operating system versions, but rather as a feature update. That’s what Windows does, and Windows versions are practically invisible!
While you make many valid points, I think it’s not reasonable to assume that OP could have avoided all the struggles they had, if they just had informed himself prior to installing. Especially since many of them problems described were probably caused by an unfortunate combination of software/driver issues, a specific hardware setup and certain user expectations.
I doubt that watching tech YouTubers or similar would have helped much.
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At this point, I’m just so sick of every little thing being a huge struggle
Suffering is inevitable. This is the first noble truth in Buddhism. Troubleshooting Linux is Tao.
It certainly made me think back to my early days of fighting IRQ conflicts in Windows ME. Or trying to get a LAN party going with mixtures of 98, 98 SE, and ME. And getting excited about the troubleshooting. I guess all these years later I’ve just gotten salty.
“something as simple as RDP” haha hahaha you’re a funny one!
My recent experience with helping a friend with an nvidia card to work on Linux is that I never want to touch an nvidia card again.
Also, please tell me which average user makes its own windows installation. When I was young in the 90s I was paid to install windows in my village.
But yes, much progress is still needed to smooth the installation. The problem is that the hardware is often a fault though, through their shitty drivers.
I would think that some of these problems with RDP and monitors might be caused by running Wayland with an Nvidia GPU. I’m pretty sure both Ubuntu and Fedora use Wayland out of the box by default. Best off using Xorg until Nvidia sorts their shit.
Weird, sucks you had a rough time. I’m mostly perplexed about the network card issue, and the monitors. I haven’t had any trouble like that in more than a decade. I’ve honestly actually had more trouble with a new install of windows failing to detect hardware than Linux recently.
It was a strange one. I had never seen anything like it before. It could still see the hardware, but listed it as unclaimed. Nothing I could do would get it to start working. When I finally decided to reinstall, I figured I’d try a different distro.
Dont fall for bait guys
Not that you did anything wrong in this process but I think you stacked the deck against yourself by requiring an open-source OS work so seamlessly with a proprietary one.
For me, the built up revulsion I feel towards windows and the sheer determination I feel to never use it again, means I would rearrange my monitors, or, you know, try more than two distros.
Linux isn’t for everyone, I acknowledge that fact. It requires a user that wants to troubleshoot, wants to figure out why something doesn’t work and make it work. If the headache isn’t fun, you’re not the right kind of masochistic self flagellator that Linux attracts, and that’s okay.
If you ever do decide to give it another whirl, try Linux Mint, MX Linux, or my personal flavor of choice, EndeavourOS. And put your monitors in a boring straight line like the rest of us before you coming crawling back.
This reply is meant to be partially humorous but entirely honest.
I absolutely cringe to make this comparison, but reading your comment, it’s the first image that came to my pop-culture poisoned mind, so here we go:
In Rick and Morty, when Evil Morty has finally achieved his long-sought and hard-won goal of escaping Rick and the Central Finite Curve, that sigh of relief he gives before stepping into the new untamed universe.
That’s how I feel about making the move to Linux, personally. That sense of overwhelming relief to be free of something you hate so much is a reward. That’s why I put in the effort to manage Linux. Being free of Microsoft’s (and Apple and Google) shit is something I want so much that I’ll not only put in the time, I’ll even enjoy it somewhat.
Ok, but here’s the thing: OP is 20 years into a tech career and troubleshooted extensively. Even identified potential solutions that they deemed too much work for the payoff (such as compiling a software release for fedora themselves because the beta branch’s buildbot broke the fedora build).
You need to put a shit ton more emphasis on your self flagellation point, and a lot less on the love of troubleshooting. We’re beyond troubleshooting and well into the “I have more fun trying to repair an engine while it’s running than actually driving a car”
I get it, some people are more interested in making the best swiss army knife than actually using it to cut things. Just please don’t conflate it with a lack troubleshooting ability.
Most of the issues on Linux faced by end users are some variety of “if you don’t like it then code your own software dumbass”, “real programmers use butterflies”, and “you’re using it wrong, but there’s no documentation anywhere of that being the case, only tribal knowledge. OUTSIDER! OUTSIDER! BURN THE OUTSIDER!”
Especially the last one. For fucks sake, if I wanted piss poor documentation put together by overstreched amatuers, written entirely in the context of expecting everyone else to have their same deep domain knowledge, and unorganizedly spread over every far flung corner of space then I’d just move back to my old job in tech support (🥁 badum-tsh)
Yeah, you make valid points. Maybe Linux isn’t for people who need windows capabilities for work. I enjoy the tinkering, but I don’t make my money on my Linux machine. I work in construction, I’m only a nerd at home.
So, my machine does everything I need it to in Linux. Some things require me to memorize fairly lengthy commands and perform more complicated functions than I’d ever have to in windows. Sometimes I learn things the hard way, sometimes my shit breaks. I try to learn something while fixing it, and if it doesn’t work I nuke and pave and keep good backups.
The satisfaction I get from becoming competent must give me some serious dopamine because I’ve stuck with it, and I’ve come to perform most day to day actions in the CLI.
I certainly don’t think OP has a lack of ability to learn, but, I also don’t think Linux is a good fit for his use case. Yet.
For rdp take a look at remmina
but who would have thought something that sounds as simple as wanting to RDP across 4 monitors would be so damn difficult.
The ubuntu unstability surprised me (not that I would recommend it anyways), but this didn’t. Isn’t RDP a proprietary protocol of Microsoft? Probably not too many use it in the Linux world
It was but my understanding is that the patent on RDP lapsed. It’s why Oracle VirtualBox uses RDP as their virtual desktop protocol.
Sorry to hear it didn’t work out for you :(
To squeeze in a metaphor : Linux is just a hobby project that kind of got out of hand in a previously Microsoft dominated world.
In the BSD world (FreeBSD,NetBSD,OpenBSD etc.) things are actually much worse. I’ve read that on computer conferences BSD developers come with an Apple Macbook (Running MacOS) to show BSD software development, which is running on servers. And I like BSD, but on the desktop it is still lacking. One only has to look at the amount of packages which no longer have a maintainer. I am not complaining about it, as I realize that maintaining open source software can be a burden.
If you want to play some more with Linux on the desktop, you can use WSL on Microsoft Windows, or use VirtualBox. Wanting to make Linux your daily driver may require more patience, or throwing money at it to speed up code development.
I mostly use SSH to manage servers, but you could try cockpit if you want something more graphical.
