in the original thought experiment not pulling the lever results in the death of the 5 people on tracks, that’s the choice of an attempt to avoid responsibility as you technically had no involvement in their deaths. Pulling the lever means you take direct responsibility for the death of one person, saving 5
Woah. Never once in my life have I heard that reasoning for not pulling the lever. I have always thought that since I was actively choosing not to pull it, that it was still a direct effect of my choice. I fully believe that people think the way you just described and now I have to reevaluate humanity.
Actions vs outcomes right? Like “I didn’t murder someone” vs “I did what would cause the least harm”.
I may be wrong but it seems like focusing on my own actions as the basis of morality is self-centered in nature. Whereas thinking about the outcome—how the people in the track are affected—is other-centered. Doing nothing seems to seek to avoid judgement of self at the cost of 5 lives. The other seeks to save 5 lives at the cost of actively killing one person.
Though, I suppose, one could wonder what terrible things the latter might choose to do to save many more.
From that standpoint, you can ask interesting questions by tweaking the numbers.
Would you want someone in charge who’s willing to actively kill 5000 people to save 5200?
What about killing 1 person for a 50% chance of saving 5?
As soon as you accept that killing people is morally OK, you open yourself up to math and the decision of how to measure the value of a person’s life.
They’re saying if you are okay to pull the lever in ANY case, then you’re going to be trying to do math in EVERY case.
Some cases will be easy, but others will be hard. Which is fine - public safety isn’t easy, neither is hostage negotiation or combat or wherever this comes into play in real life.
Looks like it’s even earlier than that. But it puts a different spin on it if the one is a loved one. It’s not really a math problem. It’s an illustration of sacrifice.
in the original thought experiment not pulling the lever results in the death of the 5 people on tracks, that’s the choice of an attempt to avoid responsibility as you technically had no involvement in their deaths. Pulling the lever means you take direct responsibility for the death of one person, saving 5
Woah. Never once in my life have I heard that reasoning for not pulling the lever. I have always thought that since I was actively choosing not to pull it, that it was still a direct effect of my choice. I fully believe that people think the way you just described and now I have to reevaluate humanity.
Actions vs outcomes right? Like “I didn’t murder someone” vs “I did what would cause the least harm”.
I may be wrong but it seems like focusing on my own actions as the basis of morality is self-centered in nature. Whereas thinking about the outcome—how the people in the track are affected—is other-centered. Doing nothing seems to seek to avoid judgement of self at the cost of 5 lives. The other seeks to save 5 lives at the cost of actively killing one person.
Though, I suppose, one could wonder what terrible things the latter might choose to do to save many more.
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From that standpoint, you can ask interesting questions by tweaking the numbers.
Would you want someone in charge who’s willing to actively kill 5000 people to save 5200?
What about killing 1 person for a 50% chance of saving 5?
As soon as you accept that killing people is morally OK, you open yourself up to math and the decision of how to measure the value of a person’s life.
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Oh I don’t think you disagree with them!
They’re saying if you are okay to pull the lever in ANY case, then you’re going to be trying to do math in EVERY case.
Some cases will be easy, but others will be hard. Which is fine - public safety isn’t easy, neither is hostage negotiation or combat or wherever this comes into play in real life.
Yeah I totally agree, well said.
From what I understand, this idea was first printed in 1967, concurrent to but separate from this essay.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/father-sacrifice-son-train-bridge/
Looks like it’s even earlier than that. But it puts a different spin on it if the one is a loved one. It’s not really a math problem. It’s an illustration of sacrifice.
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