We held a virtual encounter with Al-Farra and his patients this past Monday via a video call. In the past few weeks, we’ve sought to document what starvation looks like in Gaza, to witness the gravity of the situation with our own eyes. Israel doesn’t allow journalists into the Strip, but via video we’ve been able to conduct real-time, online tours of hospitals and clinics.
For this article we conducted four such tours, in different places, and conducted separate conversations with another 12 doctors, 10 of them volunteers from the United States and Britain, who are currently in the Gaza Strip or were there recently. What we saw there left no room for doubt about the scale of the horror.
BS. Netanyahu may have encouraged Hamas at some point , but they only continue because they want to hurt Israel and they don’t care about the starving children in Gaza any more than Israel does. Look on these message boards; many people refuse to put any blame on Hamas. Just me suggesting Hamas should surrender evokes responses only about how Isreal is responsible. It seems that the supporters of Gaza don’t want Hamas to surrender - they say they don’t like children starving, but seemingly not so much that they’d like Hamas to surrender. It’s really strange when you think about it.
‘Do you condemn Hamas?’ is a meme at this point. No one is taking that far-right talking point seriously.
Your argument is using a motte-and-bailey fallacy. It begins by solely blaming Hamas for the continuation of the war for not surrendering when it is quite clear that Israel has no intention of accepting such a surrender. Israel is actively ignoring a ceasefire proposal they previously agreed to right now.
Then when pressed your argument retreats to asserting most people refuse to put partial blame on Hamas. I condemn Hamas. A majority of people on here do. No one is interested in wasting their time saying that. ‘Do you condemn Hamas’ has been done quite a bit at this point. There’s nothing weird about not taking your genocide apologia seriously.
Israel would stop if Hamas unconditionally surrendered and released all hostages. They would have to, and they would. And they would continue to occupy Gaza and be assholes, but the violence would go way down and the aid embargo would be lifted.
If you all are so condemning of Hamas, why is the response to ‘if only Hamas would surrender’ so angry and attacking of Israel. Why deflect this way? Yes if Israel weren’t doing bad stuff there would be less bad stuff happening; but that’s a different thing.
You react vehemently against the notion that Hamas should surrender but claim you agree Hamas should surrender.
Hamas would stop if israel end occupation
This is an appeal to common decency fallacy. No one is forced to do something because it is decent. Israel is proof of that with it’s indecent attacks on civilians. The evidence we have indicates Israel’s governments wants to be at war to maintain its grip on power. They are actively ignoring a proposal that is effectively equivalent to one they already agreed to previously.
My suspicion is that Israel only agreed thinking Hamas would not. Now that Hamas has agreed to it Israel is in an awkward spot. And no doubt Israel would be even more mask off if Hamas blatantly surrendered.
Because your argument is a collection of fallacies and genocide apologia. And it’s not the first time it’s been trotted out. Hamas isn’t the organization bombing Gaza right now. And sure Hamas definitely wanted this to happen, but that doesn’t excuse Israel’s disregard of international law and human decency.
The idea that Israel would cease attacking civilians if Hamas surrendered is false based on the evidence of a genocide being live streamed to our phones. For Israel, the genocide is the goal. Netanyahu wants to form a greater Israel and deny Palestinian statehood.
There is no justification for attacking civilians. Calling Palestinians human shields is not a valid legal or moral argument, it is a dehumanization tactic. The fact that Israel is at war with Hamas doesn’t matter. If Israel would follow international law this would end today. If Israel would acknowledge their shared humanity with the Palestinians this would end today.
Israel is the one bombing civilians. If Israel would stop bombing civilians this would end today. edit: typos
But if you agree that Hamas is despicable, why not call for it to surrender? You don’t think it would stop Israel, but it could. No, you can’t bring yourself to do that. Why? Because you don’t want Israel to ‘win’? The chance of saving children isn’t worth that much to you?
If we agree that Israel is despicable why don’t you tell them to end occupation
Yes, I’d love that also. Anything to stop the killing. Of course we need security for all - if Israel completely withdraws, security would have to be provided by someone or else Hamas would just build up and attack like before.
The occupied security first. I already told you . If hamas refuse to drop arms , a free palestine will it’s army will fight them on behalf of israel. So there is zero justification for settler colonialism. Zero
Why can’t you say war criminals should turn themselves over to the ICJ?
The actions of one group of people have no bearing over the actions of another group of people. Hamas does not control Israel. Hamas is not making Israel kill civilians. Israel can stop killing civilians whenever they want.
What is Israel winning here? Global isolation? Crimes against humanity? Increasing antisemitism?
No, killing children isn’t worth making the world a worse place for all of us.
Classic bait. It’s a straw man to compare militia action to political messaging. We already know the IDF are 50x worse than Hamas.
I think communication and general moral consensus matters. If people voiced their dislike and contempt for Hamas half as much as they do for Israel, it could have the effect of diminishing Hamas’ purpose for continuing this war.
But I think a lot of commenters actually support Hamas, and the violence it keeps doing. But they won’t actually admit that. So it makes it hard to understand.
The blame will only be on the occupier alone
In that context, Israel has an obligation to root out and destroy Hamas in Gaza.
Israel only obligation to get the hell out of palestine, you genocide supporter
You’re a genocide supporter then. Hamas wants to genocide Israel. And you are supporting Hamas.
I don’t support Israel’s actions in Gaza.
I was just pointing out that by calling it an occupation, then an occupying force has the responsibility of providing safety and stability to the occupied lands. And Hamas, in that context, would be a barrier to that.
Do you mean the genocide and Israeli terrorism?
The only genocide supporter is you, Israel is the one doing a genocide right now. Even after a century a free Palestine would never be able to commit any genocide . Hamas said they will drop arms once occupation end. Even if they lie , Israel could easily reoccupy.
I only defend resistance against the occupying force the IDF, i never supported hamas killing innocent civilians.
You are the type of people who would have sided with slave owner and Nate turner killed kids during his revolt and talk about how Nate was the reason why slavery persisted. You would have sided with France and Britain and called Algerian and Indian resistance the reason why occupation lasted that long
No, Israel as a settler colonial power should get the hell out of Palestine . Hamas is not the barrier it was always Zionists and Israel. Some Arab proposed a one state for the beginning Zionists refused. Zionists leaders admitted that they always want the whole land. Israel decided to occupy Gaza and west bank in 67 nobody forced them to. The Oslo accords was PLO recognizing Israel and stop attacking it in exchange of end of occupation. What Israel did was the build illegal settlements making a two state hard if not impossible.
You Zionazis should go back to reddit because your stupid disgusting propaganda will never work
I think I was pretty clear that I don’t support Israel.
But your minimizing the atrocities of Hamas doesn’t help the situation. Israel has gone off the deep end, just like the U.S. is going. But to not recognize Hamas’ desire to wipe out the Jews in Israel shows a very poor understanding of the situation.
It’s pretty clear that you are. You think you are smart by trying to sound neutral.
I repeat Hamas can’t destroy Israel even if it want. Hamas said they would drop arms once the occupation end. If Hamas is lying and refuse to do so when Israel end occupation, an Palestinian army would be in charge to destroy them. Since Palestinians would be free , most of them would stop supporting it so Hamas can’t survive
I never minimized Hamas atrocities during the 7 of October but you are minimizing what Israel is doing
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It pretty clear that you are
Oh I will never support a terrorist organization, so fuck hamas. But Israel state is by far the greater terrorist organization at this point. And no one buys the rhetoric that war goes on because of Hamas. How many times has Israel already killed the critical leaders of Hamas? And yet they still continue to terrorize and ethnically cleanse people of Gaza because of a terrorist organisation whose key leadership they have killed multiple times? That is what I call bs. This war is just a casus belli for the Netanyahu’s government to stay in power so he has no intention of letting it end before he gets all its spoils. And apparently about 70 to 80 percent of Israeli people unfortunately share his views. It is insane how delusional it is to expect respect and peaceful reactions from your neighbours when all you do is spread hate and fear towards them.
And this is not the only example of deep state planting moles in terrorist organizations, be it to know in advance what they will do or to steer them towards actions which you think is beneficial to keep an oppressive government in place.