At it’s simpliest level it can just be aromatic rings arranging themselves so that they vibrate in a “good” way compared to a “bad” way.
That doesn’t mean AI can be conscious though, for Silicon to vibrate it needs to be in acid. That’s why the aliens in Alien are silicon based with acidic blood.
So we hypothetically could create artificial consciousness, it’s just we’re not going down a path that can end in that with current AI.
Physics has been getting turned on it’s head the past 3-5 years, but even before that when you start looking too close at it, you start sounding like a hippie fairy tale.
Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose are kind of the experts on consciousness, and a lot of the stuff they’ve been saying for decades is finally starting to be proven true. Like, barely a year ago we found out how quantum superposition can be maintained in a human brain, for the longest time that’s why no one listened to them, their theory required that, and it was thought to be impossible.
But if you want to go down the rabbit hole. You start with those two.
But Penrose was the guy working with Hawking to prove Einstein’s big stuff. And before that he was sending MC Escher ideas and I itial sketches, like those never ending stairs.
Dude is legitimately the smartest living human and he’s spent the last 30 years looking into this stuff as a hobby. It’s really the only reason we know anything about consciousness. A once in a century genius retired early and wanted to keep busy for the next 30 years
That’s an interesting theory I haven’t encountered before, thanks for sharing!
However, I’m not finding anything that suggests to me that Orch OR is really anything more than Penrose catching Nobelitis.
Looking at some of those recent “big results”:
Microtubule-Stabilizer Epothilone B Delays Anesthetic-Induced Unconsciousness in Rats is making a huge leap from “inhibiting basic cell functions results in delayed offset of anesthesia” to “quantum brain hypothesis proved!!!”. It’s a very cool result with important implications, but I would be very surprised if there isn’t already a well proven existing mechanism to explain the result. If I were to bet it would be related to axonal transport, but that’s largely speculative on my part.
In summary, carry on you crazy bastards! But I don’t think you can make any difinitive claims about consciousness and certainly wouldn’t consider Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose “the experts on consciousness” especially with how poorly defined and nebulous the concept is.
I know it’s a shitpost but silicon dioxide, which is grown on top of the silicon wafer during manufacturing, is one of the most commonly used piezoelectrics. Every clock and oscillating signal in modern electronics is due to ‘vibrating silicon’.
Chemistry is definitely my weak suit, but I think it’s something about how silicon can arrange in an aromatic ring, and then interacting with each other
There’s silobenzine rings, but I think for a fully silicon one, it would need suspended in an acid so they can interact and (literally) vibrate as a group.
But I think in general, you’re talking about on a macro real world level, and I’m talking about some teeny tiny Ant-Man and the Wasp level shit.
Like, 6-8 silicon atoms hooked up together is going to behavior differently than a lump of a compound contraining other elements…
for a fully silicon one, it would need suspended in an acid so they can interact and (literally) vibrate as a group.
I think there’s something more that you’re trying to communicate here but I’m unsure of what it is. Getting silicon, or semiconductors more generally, to “literally vibrate as a group” is the basis of a significant amount of analog electronics, MEMS, NEMS, etc. most notably in RF signal chains and the like. Do you have a link to where this comes from or something?
you’re talking about on a macro real world level
We’re talking at about the same scale of microtubules with 101 nm feature size and 101 um component size. I used the example I did because it scales nicely to real world level where most people will have encountered it and so be somewhat familiar with. The primary differences I see are of dimension (semiconductor manufacturing methods can’t do “true 3d”) and of medium.
lump of a compound contraining other elements
That’s how silicon semiconductors work and how that “semi” part gets controlled.
We don’t need a metabolism for consciousness.
At it’s simpliest level it can just be aromatic rings arranging themselves so that they vibrate in a “good” way compared to a “bad” way.
That doesn’t mean AI can be conscious though, for Silicon to vibrate it needs to be in acid. That’s why the aliens in Alien are silicon based with acidic blood.
So we hypothetically could create artificial consciousness, it’s just we’re not going down a path that can end in that with current AI.
All of this sounds very magical and confident and I’m not informed well enough to refute it, but I also can’t tell if it’s satire or nah. 😆
Physics has been getting turned on it’s head the past 3-5 years, but even before that when you start looking too close at it, you start sounding like a hippie fairy tale.
Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose are kind of the experts on consciousness, and a lot of the stuff they’ve been saying for decades is finally starting to be proven true. Like, barely a year ago we found out how quantum superposition can be maintained in a human brain, for the longest time that’s why no one listened to them, their theory required that, and it was thought to be impossible.
But if you want to go down the rabbit hole. You start with those two.
https://hameroff.arizona.edu/research-overview/orch-or
https://scientificandmedical.net/roger-penrose-on-consciousness/
But Penrose was the guy working with Hawking to prove Einstein’s big stuff. And before that he was sending MC Escher ideas and I itial sketches, like those never ending stairs.
Dude is legitimately the smartest living human and he’s spent the last 30 years looking into this stuff as a hobby. It’s really the only reason we know anything about consciousness. A once in a century genius retired early and wanted to keep busy for the next 30 years
That’s an interesting theory I haven’t encountered before, thanks for sharing!
However, I’m not finding anything that suggests to me that Orch OR is really anything more than Penrose catching Nobelitis.
Looking at some of those recent “big results”:
In summary, carry on you crazy bastards! But I don’t think you can make any difinitive claims about consciousness and certainly wouldn’t consider Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose “the experts on consciousness” especially with how poorly defined and nebulous the concept is.
I know it’s a shitpost but silicon dioxide, which is grown on top of the silicon wafer during manufacturing, is one of the most commonly used piezoelectrics. Every clock and oscillating signal in modern electronics is due to ‘vibrating silicon’.
Chemistry is definitely my weak suit, but I think it’s something about how silicon can arrange in an aromatic ring, and then interacting with each other
There’s silobenzine rings, but I think for a fully silicon one, it would need suspended in an acid so they can interact and (literally) vibrate as a group.
But I think in general, you’re talking about on a macro real world level, and I’m talking about some teeny tiny Ant-Man and the Wasp level shit.
Like, 6-8 silicon atoms hooked up together is going to behavior differently than a lump of a compound contraining other elements…
I think there’s something more that you’re trying to communicate here but I’m unsure of what it is. Getting silicon, or semiconductors more generally, to “literally vibrate as a group” is the basis of a significant amount of analog electronics, MEMS, NEMS, etc. most notably in RF signal chains and the like. Do you have a link to where this comes from or something?
We’re talking at about the same scale of microtubules with 101 nm feature size and 101 um component size. I used the example I did because it scales nicely to real world level where most people will have encountered it and so be somewhat familiar with. The primary differences I see are of dimension (semiconductor manufacturing methods can’t do “true 3d”) and of medium.
That’s how silicon semiconductors work and how that “semi” part gets controlled.