And we don’t just let emotions happen sometimes, we should acknowledge they are always there to one degree or another. There may be times when having a brave face is what is needed, but for most people most of the time, it isn’t
So, the real takeaway should be “you don’t need to be strong all the time, in fact, you can’t”
i read “weak” in this context as “unmanly”. as in, the concept of feeling things makes someone less of a man, that manliness is inherently tied to stoicism. which is a very common thing, and something that needs to be combated. using language that meatheads understand necessarily means losing some nuance and adding some bias.
I think the important thing to understand the meaning isn’t the “weak” as much as the “doesn’t make you”. Like they could have achieved the same meaning by saying, “You are not defined by the emotions you feel in times of trouble.”
I see the word “weak” as an emotional appeal rather than an actual important part of the meaning.
It is an emotional appeal. It’s an emotional appeal when used by red-pill pick-up artists, or sigma grindset life coaches, or your dad when he’s disappointed by your lack of stoicism.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with emotional appeals.
Yeah kinda. But in the sense that having control over your emotions is strong and not being able to control them is weak. That does mean you are weak when you cry in public, but that is kinda the point of crying. Its a way to communicate to others that you need help or support or comfort or something. It also means that you are weak when you are unable to control your anger and punch someone in the face when you don’t get your way. It also means that you are strong when you take time to talk about your emotions, since that helps you be in control of them.
Control does not mean suppress, it actual means control. Know when to show them, use them, hide them, the whole shebang. It’s not an easy skill to master, so if you do, you’re definitely strong.
This really isn’t that profound as a man-to-man interaction. True friends are supportive. The big problem is when you show emotional sensitivity to a romantic partner. Too many men have been met with “the ick” when they open up to women.
A lack of feeling is also a kind of weakness - usually it’s due to long-term suppression of emotion and leaves you out of touch with your inner self. Bottled up emotions tend to be rather damaging in the long term. Plus, you don’t just lose out on the hurtful/bad emotions.
Acknowledging and overcoming negative feelings takes more strength than simply ignoring them.
I think you’re misunderstanding/I’m not explaining well.
Accessing emotions is hard for a lot of us because we’ve been trained to clam up. But without that external factor, it wouldn’t be.
But when we do actually do it, it now takes effort and strength when it probably shouldn’t.
But the physical loss of control when, for example, crying, makes us physically vulnerable as well as emotionally.
I can see why times in history, having v people be scared and breaking down would jeopardize themselves or others. But we’ve magnified that, or lost the nuance.
Crying or raging or withdrawing in camp is safe, on a hunt or while driving a truck is the exception not the rule.
I wonder if this is a modern human problem or just a human problem
Maybe. In my experience showing certain emotions as a man at all can be ridiculed or seen as weakness - which is what I was referring to in my comment.
Allowing yourself (as you say) to be overwhelmed by emotion can definitely leave you weak/physically vulnerable - but the weakness here is not the emotions themselves but rather the lack of control.
I agree, I think in the context of the comic with „stoic and strong“ it does feel weird to say that they do not make you weak, because he is obviously struggling.
Like you I think the point should be more about generally building up to better deal with all our emotions - even unwanted ones - and be more comfortable while experiencing them.
But I also see how in the comic it‘s easier to say to a buddy that he is not weak to comfort him to open up and then later on circle back to his ideas of strength and stoicism. But I think we have to rethink standards and ideas about masculinity and emotions for sure.
Maybe I’m off but… they do make you weak, right?
And we don’t just let emotions happen sometimes, we should acknowledge they are always there to one degree or another. There may be times when having a brave face is what is needed, but for most people most of the time, it isn’t
So, the real takeaway should be “you don’t need to be strong all the time, in fact, you can’t”
i read “weak” in this context as “unmanly”. as in, the concept of feeling things makes someone less of a man, that manliness is inherently tied to stoicism. which is a very common thing, and something that needs to be combated. using language that meatheads understand necessarily means losing some nuance and adding some bias.
I think the important thing to understand the meaning isn’t the “weak” as much as the “doesn’t make you”. Like they could have achieved the same meaning by saying, “You are not defined by the emotions you feel in times of trouble.”
I see the word “weak” as an emotional appeal rather than an actual important part of the meaning.
It is an emotional appeal. It’s an emotional appeal when used by red-pill pick-up artists, or sigma grindset life coaches, or your dad when he’s disappointed by your lack of stoicism.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with emotional appeals.
Yeah kinda. But in the sense that having control over your emotions is strong and not being able to control them is weak. That does mean you are weak when you cry in public, but that is kinda the point of crying. Its a way to communicate to others that you need help or support or comfort or something. It also means that you are weak when you are unable to control your anger and punch someone in the face when you don’t get your way. It also means that you are strong when you take time to talk about your emotions, since that helps you be in control of them.
Control does not mean suppress, it actual means control. Know when to show them, use them, hide them, the whole shebang. It’s not an easy skill to master, so if you do, you’re definitely strong.
This really isn’t that profound as a man-to-man interaction. True friends are supportive. The big problem is when you show emotional sensitivity to a romantic partner. Too many men have been met with “the ick” when they open up to women.
I disagree.
A lack of feeling is also a kind of weakness - usually it’s due to long-term suppression of emotion and leaves you out of touch with your inner self. Bottled up emotions tend to be rather damaging in the long term. Plus, you don’t just lose out on the hurtful/bad emotions.
Acknowledging and overcoming negative feelings takes more strength than simply ignoring them.
I think you’re misunderstanding/I’m not explaining well.
Accessing emotions is hard for a lot of us because we’ve been trained to clam up. But without that external factor, it wouldn’t be.
But when we do actually do it, it now takes effort and strength when it probably shouldn’t.
But the physical loss of control when, for example, crying, makes us physically vulnerable as well as emotionally.
I can see why times in history, having v people be scared and breaking down would jeopardize themselves or others. But we’ve magnified that, or lost the nuance.
Crying or raging or withdrawing in camp is safe, on a hunt or while driving a truck is the exception not the rule.
I wonder if this is a modern human problem or just a human problem
Maybe. In my experience showing certain emotions as a man at all can be ridiculed or seen as weakness - which is what I was referring to in my comment.
Allowing yourself (as you say) to be overwhelmed by emotion can definitely leave you weak/physically vulnerable - but the weakness here is not the emotions themselves but rather the lack of control.
I agree, I think in the context of the comic with „stoic and strong“ it does feel weird to say that they do not make you weak, because he is obviously struggling.
Like you I think the point should be more about generally building up to better deal with all our emotions - even unwanted ones - and be more comfortable while experiencing them.
But I also see how in the comic it‘s easier to say to a buddy that he is not weak to comfort him to open up and then later on circle back to his ideas of strength and stoicism. But I think we have to rethink standards and ideas about masculinity and emotions for sure.