The letter seems to be fitting into a pattern of pro-Israel organizations, such as Canary Mission and Betar, targeting critics of Israel’s military actions, as well as supporters of Palestinian self-determination. Betar says it has provided lists of noncitizen protesters to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Department of Homeland Security, and other government agencies, recommending deportation.
We urge you and your office to investigate whether or not Ms. Rachel is being remunerated to disseminate Hamas-aligned propaganda to her millions of followers, as this may violate the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA)
Like she needs the cash, fucking lol. Peak JAQing off
She only posts related content saying children shouldn’t die and acknowledging victims by name, making them into people… , and those children are Palestinian. That’s her crime.
Ah yes, Ilan Pappe, who Benny Morris called “one of the world’s sloppiest historians”.
Benny Morris, who considers the Nakba justified. The criticisms are unfounded. Far more reputable Historians agree with Ilan Pappe and recognize his work as highly credible.
But in an astonishing recent Ha’aretz interview, after summarizing his new research, Morris proceeds to argue for the necessity of ethnic cleansing in 1948. He faults David Ben-Gurion for failing to expel all Arab Israelis, and hints that it may be necessary to finish the job in the future. Though he calls himself a left-wing Zionist, he invokes and praises the fascist Vladimir Jabotinsky in calling for an “iron wall” solution to the current crisis. Referring to Sharon’s Security Wall, he says, “Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.” He calls the conflict between Israelis and Arabs a struggle between civilization and barbarism, and suggests an analogy frequently drawn by Palestinians, though from the other side of the Winchester: “Even the great American democracy could not have been created without the annihilation of the Indians.”
Why do you write “Zionist” when it’s not written in the article at all? “Zionist” and “pro-Israel” is not necessarily the same.
Huh? How the heck does that work? If such anti-Israel Zionists exist I definitely haven’t met them.
Well, for the sake of argument I consider myself anti-Israel Zionist in the sense that I oppose the current state of Israel and it’s right-wing government, but I support the general idea of a Jewish state. Does that make sense?
Ethnostates are okay so long as you agree with their political views?
In a pre-1947 world, would you support the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine? Knowing, of course, that there’s no way of drawing the lines of such a state without including a significant number of Arabs that precludes a state that’s both Jewish and Democratic without ethnic cleansing. The way real-life Israel “solved” this problem was by committing ethnic cleansing, AKA the Nakba.
No. It does not.
Murderous land thieves have no legitimate rights to the land they stole.
While Israel has stolen land from the Palestinians, the Jewish people are still native to the broader region of Levante. Just like the Palestinians are.
Any government that murders steals and commits terrorism on innocents like Israel does every single day since the first day it existed is not a legitimate government and not a legitimate state. It was clearly a mistake for the world to recognize Israel as a state. Israels government is illegitimate and needs to be recognized as such.
Ok and that means Israel is not built on stolen land? Pro-Israel is Zionism. They’re the same fucking thing now.
Yes, it’s the same. If you want to educate yourself about the topic read Israeli historian Ilan Pappe or Palestinian philosopher Mohammed El-Kurd.
what is the difference between the two?
Zionism is an ethnonationalist Ideology that says that Israel should exist as a Jewish state. Like all ethnonationalist movements, Zionism also has a strong component of territorial expansionism.
Israel’s founding was absolutely a Zionist project. And Zionism has been a large part of Israeli politics since then. However, there is another school of thought that goes “I don’t care how we got here, but it is 2025, and the state of Israel is a thing that exists, and I support the right of that entity and it’s citizens”.
This is a bit muddled in today’s climate, because the current Israeli leadership has been thoroughly captured by ultra Zionist. As in, Netenyahu’s government is only holding on to power by forming a coalition with far right fringe parties that until a few years ago were a third rail in Israeli politics. Back in 2007, their c now current Minister of National Security, Ben Gvir, was convicted of supporting a terrorist organization.
However, as with every country, people can have a different view towards the country as a whole, and it’s current political state.
thank you for the clarification
Israel does not have to be Zionist Israel.
Now, I’m sure the Palestinians would rather have it that, after WWII, people hadn’t come “home” to settle in the area in the first place, but if it had been handled better, and without, you know, all the genocide, they might have been more accepting of the idea.
Maybe not much, but definitely way more accepting than they are now.
The Palestinians did repeatedly advocate for a unitary secular solution that would give equal rights to everyone. Ben Gurion and the zionist project instead chose partition to setup a causi belli to begin the nakba (Expulsions of Palestinians started in the 1920s, not with the nakba) and establish Israel as a settler Colonialist state.
Israel does not have to be Zionist Israel.
But we don’t live in a vacuum, and it absolutely is.
No need to put home in quotes. Jews are native to the region of today’s Palestine/Israel as Arabs and Muslims are.
Jews are native to the region of today’s Palestine/Israel as Arabs and Muslims are.
If I lived in your neighborhood and came and kicked you out of your house at gunpoint would that be OK because I am “native to the region”?
What does “native to the region” even mean ethically or legally? “Regions” arent how land ownership works. Its a nonsense term designed to imply ownership where no ownership exists. You should be ashamed of yourself for writing that nonsense.
I just wanted to say that Jews and many Arab ethnicities have historically lived in the region of Levante, which is today’s Israel and Palestine. And therefore both people claim the land to be theirs, which is historically correct in both cases. I wasn’t even implying one of the groups have more of a right to it than the other.
therefore both people claim the land to be theirs
No. Thats not the way land ownership works. Its not the international understanding, the palestinian understanding, or the torah understanding. So where did you pull that understanding from exactly? From your rear, right. As some sort of lame excuse to retroactively justify terrorism and the land theft they terrorize for. You should be ashamed of yourself. And if you are in any civilized country you should be tried and then punished for supporting terrorism. Your views are not OK.
And if you go further back, we all came from Africa. Who fucking cares?
People were driven from their ancestral homes. I could not care less if the people doing the driving out had a great great great great great great great Uncle that probably lived in that general area. That’s meaningless.
That’s true, Zionism is explicitly about the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians and settler colonialism. There has always been Jewish and Christian Palestinians in historic Palestine
That’s simply not true and almost bigotry. You have all the reason and right to hate the Israeli government and their war crimes, but you can’t generalize all Zionism because of the action of the Israeli government.
Major copium. I think maybe you’ve twisted the definition of “Zionism” into something a little more vague that allows you to continue supporting the thing you want to support without feeling bad.
The person above you’s definition of Zionism is completely accurate.
Zionism has always been a fascist ideology.
Quotes
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
The Birth of Israel Myths and Realities
- Simha Flapan
10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe
The “ten myths” that Pappe explores reinforce the regional status quo. He explores the claim that Palestine was an empty land at the time of the Balfour Declaration, as well as the formation of Zionism and its role in the early decades of nation building. He asks whether the Palestinians voluntarily left their homeland in 1948, and whether June 1967 was a war of “no choice.” Turning to the myths surrounding the failures of the Camp David Accords and the official reasons for the attacks on Gaza, he explains why the two state solution, in his view, is no longer viable.
- summerized and full book
Israeli historian Ilan Pappe: ‘This is the last phase of Zionism’
Ilan Pappe: We are in a state that one can define as neo-Zionist. The old values of Zionism are now more extreme, [in] far more aggressive form than they were before, trying to achieve in a short time what the previous generation of Zionists were trying to achieve in [a] much longer, more, incremental, gradual way.
This is an attempt by a new leadership of Zionism to complete the work that they started in 1948, namely of taking over officially the whole of historical Palestine and getting rid of as many Palestinians as possible and in the same process, and [this is] something new, creating a new Israeli empire that is either feared or respected by its neighbours – and therefore can even expand territorially beyond the borders of mandatory or historical Palestine.
Ethnic Cleansing prior to 1948:
- Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Planned occupation and the beginnings of systemic apartheid:
-
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967
Historian Works on the History
-
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
-
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
-
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
-
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
-
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
-
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
-
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
-
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Adi Callai has done a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history
Okay, antisemite.
The quotes were because “home” both is and isn’t the right word. There are a lot of people in this world who might still think of the house they grew up in as “home” on some level, but in many cases, that property is in the hands of strangers now.
For example, I have a relative who not only lived in but was born in a house that remained in the family until a couple of decades ago, and I think they’d dearly love to be able to go back there. Even so, I don’t think the current occupants would be best pleased if my relative decided to go “home” without some kind of arrangement, especially if they decided they were going to move in.
Feel free to generalise or pick apart this metaphor.
Fair enough, I agree.
Oh fantastic! My ancestors are mostly Scottish, I didn’t realise when I moved here to Scotland that I could just TAKE some land! Off to appropriate my next door neighbour’s back garden, they aren’t using it much. Next week: taking over the house my great great grandfather built. It’s by the beach!
This was a crosspost, didn’t realize it was a modified headline, though considering where I’m cross-posting it from I really should be more mindful of such things LMAO
Fixed
You should also link the original post and state it’s cross-posted.
ie: cross-posted from (permalink of original source)
Nah, for one, that “cross-posted from” thing is dumb AF when there’s a dedicated UI button/link that automatically shows when a link is detected elsewhere on the Lemmy-verse.
That’s how you end up with cluttered posts like:
Cross-posted from:
Crossposted from:
Crossposted from:
For two, I’m cross-posting content from .ml comms to the nearest non-.ml comm as part of ongoing boycotting efforts to reduce .ml’s influence to make defederation an easier decision for admins everywhere because of the .ml admins insistence to push their Tankie ideology through various means from censorship of views critical of Authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China to allowing propaganda outlets (such as RT) to flourish
Adding a low-friction link like that runs counter to that.
Holy moly, I had no idea it’s that bad. Thanks for the link.
