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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: September 8th, 2023

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  • Hey guys, this right here is a super valuable point to address and really strikes straight to the heart of the ability of a system like this to give the illusion of choice. People absolutely will still think, despite this, they are still in control and we need to address it not dismiss it.

    I’m undoing the downvote on this comment, it absolutely is a big part of the conversation, even if you think it’s naive.




  • So In this specific instance, the specific instance we are talking about, the instance that is the topic of this discussion, no one.

    The obvious follow up question is, if he were rolling up the tinted windows so he could retrieve a weapon without the cop seeing, or if he had taken off at high speed in his little sports car and run a high speed chase before crashing, could multiple people have died?

    I’ll just give you the obvious answer, “yes”.

    The reason your answer is naive isn’t because cops don’t do terrible things, they do, and they should absolutely be held accountable. It is because cops are also often on unpredictable situations and if you can’t look at something like this and see where pulling him out of the car could be justified, you can’t argue in good faith where the line is between this and a true abuse of power.

    And if you can’t do that, the people in power will never take your argument seriously, and your will continue to be largely ignored.



  • Sure, but once they establish a pattern of non-compliance it doesn’t reset with each new instruction. They expect he will resist getting out of the car based on his refusal to roll down the window. At that point they have to choose whether to get him out of the car quickly, or risk non-compliance issue with that, which could involve fleeing or hitting people with his car.

    When officer or public safety are at risk they will always choose to take someone into custody to stabilize the situation and then reassess from there.

    The situation with the window can’t be separated from the treatment with the door.