Again, it seems like you have a really vague notion of what value actually is which is what makes you incapable of understanding the concept of labor exploitation. You need to understand the difference between marginal theories of value, which is defined by a circular logic where price determines value and value determines price, and labor theories of value, where people interact with the material world to modify it in some way that gives it added utility.

How is it that simply by being an employer, you are exploiting staff?

It’s not that simple. You can be an employer and not exploit the people that work for you. However, doing that means you will not have a profitable business. Profits come from exploitation. Please understand that when I use the word exploitation I’m not making an inherently moral argument about whether exploitation is good or bad. Exploitation is simply a material phenomena. I believe it only becomes a moral issue when undue suffering occurs as a result of said exploitation.

Is the guy selling kabobs down the street from me exploiting his staff?

He might be. Small business are often some of the most exploitive workplaces because of how unprofitable they can be. It’s not uncommon for a small business to be forced into situations where they really have no choice but to exploit their staff if they want to continue operating. This is why so many restaurants in the US rely on undocumented immigrants who they can pay less than the minimum wage. It’s a flaw in the way our economy works.

I mean, I admit I’m totally being exploited at my current job but I’ve had other jobs where I was paid extremely well and given great opportunities.

This happens to a lot of people in industries where profitability declines. When profits are high, workers in those industries often get paid that they can afford their basic needs. However, as profits wane investors look to bolster them by taking more from their employees. What’s happening in the tech sector is a prime example of such a phenomenon. Unfortunately, this is a tendency that’s baked into the our economy. It prevents long term sustainable from being achieved in industries that are key to our economy but where the opportunities for new markets or innovations are lacking.

You guys are either being dishonest with me or dishonest with yourselves. Or you really have no idea what you’re talking about and just regurgitating what you’ve heard other people say.

Have you thought that maybe you’re the one who’s more confident that you really should be? I get that a lot of what I’ve said may contradict vague notions about how the economy works that you may have absorbed simply because you exist within a world steeped in corporate propaganda. However, your beliefs are not ones that any worthwhile economist would take seriously.

That’s an ignorant response. Do you even understand what I mean when I say exploitation? This is literally Econ 101 stuff. Exploitation in our current economic system means that working people who must sell their labor in order to pay for basic necessities are not compensated for the full value of their labor.

Now frankly if the working people in question were able to work reasonable hours and if they had access to all the resources they need to live a happy and fulfilling lives, I wouldn’t have a serious issue with exploitation. However, that’s just not how our economy works. Sick and dying people are taken for all they have because they literally have no other options. Working people are forced to sell their labor because if they don’t they generally won’t be able to house and feed themselves or their family. People are literally dying in the street because they can’t pay the egregious rents landlords are charging.

All of that pain and suffering is what makes profit seeking and wealth hoarding morally objectionable behavior. We literally have super yachts trolling on by waterfronts where people are forced to live in tent cities. These disgusting displays of gluttony should make anyone with a heart realize how morally bankrupt the wealthy truly are. Do you have no heart?

It’s not the type of change people want. However if violent retribution is all that’s on offer it makes perfect sense that someone would eventually take that deal and that people would celebrate it.

The irony is I think the victims of these people as a whole would be far more generous with them if they had to choose a fair punishment. Like I’d be perfectly happy if these rich assholes had their wealth appropriated, they were sentenced to a few years in a prison actually meant to rehabilitate them, and then they could be released and allowed to work normal jobs. However there are no avenues available to people to make that happen so some might feel violent retribution is there only outlet.

There’s one simple trick they can do if they don’t want to feel afraid. Give up their wealth. Gift whatever stock and excess wealth they have to the employees or whoever it is they exploited. If they do that they have no reason to fear retribution.

Also, the media cheered the killing of terrorists. Get off your hypocritical high fucking horse. Clearly there is a line where killing is deemed acceptable.

Hey now that’s state sanctioned violence which is legitimate for… reasons…

I reject this notion that all businesses exist to exploit workers.

That’s because you don’t understand the basic economic principles under which businesses operate. You think value is created out of thin air and is not a product of human labor.

I know my own city has often invested in programs that weren’t really helping those it intended to help. From what I learned this past year, it’s striking how little government knows who is in need of what.

It’s almost like governments do not operate in the democratic interests of the civilian populations they govern…. So strange. I wonder why that could be?

Yeah and then you won’t be able to pay for housing built by other working class people and food grown by other working class people. Wait that’s weird. I can’t seem to find the billionaires in that equation. It’s almost like the needs of working class people could be met by… other working class people.

I was not aware media outlets were talking about how amazing and hardworking billionaires are. No. Do you have some examples?

Oh come on. If you really are in the room with billionaires at charitable events you know the press is often invited to write puff pieces about how generous they are.

Are you saying that wealthy people should not use their money to build hospitals or help dying kids?

I’m saying we shouldn’t let people undemocratically decide whether or not working class people build hospitals and treat dying kids. By advocating that billionaires hold that power you are literally siding against democracy. But hey I guess all those super yachts just need to be built. For the good of society right?

Where in your answer did you say. “Cuba has the most doctors per capita”? Because all I see is you trying to weasel your way out of answering directly. I mean like do you even understand how absurd you sound trying to relativize Cuba with Monaco?

That’s what your buddies want you to believe top maintain the class war.

What class war? All I see is a one sided massacre. This murder doesn’t event register on the scale of horror working class people are forced to endure daily.

Speak with the people who run it and fund the operation.

What makes you think I haven’t? I know you’re right when you say they aren’t just in for the PR. Billionaires love getting their egos stroked publicly at fundraisers, ribbon cuttings, or other “charity” events. These are such nauseating displays of narcissistic behavior. I’m sorry you’re too wrapped up in their emotional sob stories to have any reasonable perspective when you’re in the room with these people.

How can possible think billionaires are better stewards of the power bestowed upon them by their immense wealth than a democratic society entrusted with that same power would be?

It’s not me who’s out of touch it’s all you plebs! Don’t you understand the divine right of CEOs?!

It generates value.

It’s true! Value just springs forth into this world from the ether. It’s basically alchemy. No other more rational expiation for it.

What if I plan to create more products and need the extra revenue to invest in the new business opportunity?

What if I need my peasants to each give me a bit more grain this season because the plague killed half of them? What if I also need to feed my knights so I can conquer new territories? Why should those lousy peasants have a say in any of that?

No one is telling the good stories about good billionaires.

Omg this right here is so funny. You must be blind. Media outlets talk non stop about how amazing, smart, caring, and hardworking billionaires supposedly are.

Those who build hospitals, contribute to fighting childhood cancer, who support public schools and build homes for the homeless.

Oh right so do the billionaires actually pour the concrete? Do they administer the chemo to the kids with cancer? Do they put together assignments for students? Do they hammer the nails to frame the house they’re supposedly building? Because as I see it if all they’re doing is signing check then they really haven’t done anything for anyone. It’s just our fucked up society means all the people that actually do good in the world need the sign of from a billionaire. If you don’t have their approval but you still want to work for the benefit of all, tough luck. Rent is still due at the end of the month.

Charitable organizations are basically PR for billionaires. You’re just foolish enough not to realize that.

Do you have any idea how an economy actually works? Money doesn’t build buildings. It doesn’t treat sick patients. It doesn’t conduct medical research. People and their labor do all of that.

So many words and yet you didn’t answer the question.

They aren’t being obtuse. They’re just an idealist. They likely believe the decisions people make and the things they choose to believe in are detached from the circumstances in which people find themselves. In their mind, morality is self evident and anyone committing an immoral act, as they define it, could simply choose not to.

I’m not sure I trust any of these claims. The sources are all Ukrainian which means they are highly likely to be war propaganda at worst and heavily biased at best. No matter what anyone’s preconceptions about North Korea or Russia may be, independent verification is needed to know if any this is true.