The letter, which was spammed on Lemmy and deleted multiple times, just linked to other SubStack blogs as “evidence”. Come on, people
I was disappointed in the lack of critical thinking skills in those threads. I thought Lemmy users were smarter than that. Hopefully we can put all these conspiracies to bed.
There’s a sizable number of people intentionally looking the other way because they think they can fight fire with fire, utilizing the same conspiracy theory thinking that the Right routinely gets away to shape public discourse.
I have to say, the thought crossed my mind. But Dems could never pull it off.
People are idiots everywhere.
Everybody is an idiot sometimes.
Even you.
Not me tho. Thankfully I’m flawless and don’t have to deal with the same nonsense of ever being wrong.
All I see is the poster on Fox Mulder’s wall that said “I want to believe.”
What the fuck is this stroke of a title?
The claims made in a ‘duty to warn’ letter addressed to presidential nominee Kamala Harris are - according to our research - misleading.
Sorry, but this is standard journalistic practice. The sentence is correct english, even in its unedited form, albeit in the same way that buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo is correct english.
I do think it’s a practice that needs to be reconsidered in the interest of making journalism more accessible to everyone, but for now you just gotta learn how to read it.
Have to disagree with you here. I’m not a journalist, but I read easily digestible headlines all day. I had to go back and carefully parse this sentence one word at a time. It’s just a bad headline.
The whole article does read as a google translate from another language. Is so hard to follow. Still the article only cites Spoonamore had wrong numbers cause later came more accurate ones. It does not address the main issue that the bullet votes are higher than other elections. Still I’m taking everyone involved with a grain of salt.I guess that sadly we’ll never know the truth.
There’s nothing confusing about it IMO.
People need to accept who we are, collectively, as a country. We chose this shit. It’ll be a wild ride.
Perhaps people would choose something else if third parties had equal access and we changed how we vote to get rid of the spoiler effect.
People need to accept who we are, collectively,
To do what?
To avoid immediately resorting to denial and conspiracy theories like some kind of smooth brained conservative, I reckon.
Um… I guess.
I was thinking of this phrase as being a little thought terminating. Like, instead of addressing the problems democrats have with outreach and mass appeal, etc., we just kind of sulk in the bed we’ve supposedly made ourselves.
I hadn’t thought of the quelling conspiracies angle, though.
Yeah, it’s definitely a “¿Por Qué No Los Dos?” situation. The Democrats need to figure out how to not come across as Republican Lite, and avoid that thought terminating stuff like you said, but damn is our culture also deeply flawed.
This is the difference. Both the right and the left have their cranks, but the ones on the left never get mainstream acceptance. While on the right, they make the crank president.
Because the left is, for the most part, intellectually honest enough to be skeptical of broad claims that seem too good to be true. Even ones that ostensibly benefit them.
While the right just grabs hold with both hands at anything they read immediately and start plastering it all over social media.
One side has the most basic critical thinking skills, and one side is lacking in that.
Spoonamore doesn’t have shit and has admitted as much when pressed. The guy basically contests results that he does not like. He also does not know what a bullet ballot is. That term deals with ranked choice elections where someone only picks top candidates. The term he is looking for is undervoting.
I get it. When you are shown the enthusiasm at Harris’ rallies and how absolutely batshit Trump is, it’s pretty easy to conclude that the election must have been tampered with. But there is no evidence that it was directly tampered with. Republicans do a lot of shit to mess with votes but that is all known shit like making voting more difficult in certain areas, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, etc. They are not directly tampering with the presidential election on a mass scale nor are they competent enough to.
I was expecting it to look like a close race where Trump would cheat using the courts.
That didn’t happen.
Thank you! I just needed someone to check that dudes math, very happy they did.
North Carolina
Spoonamore alleged that the purported hacking and fraud in North Carolina proved to be “the most extreme” and that “the public results indicate over 350,000 voters cast a ballot for Trump and no other race.” However, this is false.
According to the North Carolina State Board of Elections’ website, as of Nov. 21, 5,722,556 voters cast ballots. Of those, 5,699,152 ballots displayed votes in the race for president. The website also reported that 5,592,243 ballots bore votes for the state’s governor’s race. A comparison of the numbers for total votes and the gubernatorial race would reveal the maximum number of possible “bullet vote” ballots for all presidential candidates. The difference between the two numbers is 130,313 votes — a count nowhere near the 350,000 votes stated by Spoonamore. Trump received 183,048 more of North Carolinian’s votes than Harris.
Welp.
That’s not how this works folks. You are supposed to ignore all evidence to the contrary, then spend the next 4 years claiming the election was stolen and whining like a spoiled toddler
He told a good, plausible story. The count claims were the first thing I was going to verify, and Snopes pointed right to the actual source.
I’ve been peaking back on Reddit to a few sub reddits, r/somethingiswrong2024 is the main one. There’s r/verify2024 and r/houstonwade as well that have some interesting ideas and points brought up about all this. They simply dismissed this snopes report, stating snopes had lost credibility over the past years but not sure how true that is. I don’t know if I was just getting a contact high from the copium over there, I have hope still, I want to believe there is something in the works but ultimately without concrete, indisputable, outright blatant cheating thoroughly documented, there’s not chance of overturning the election. Especially without stirring up the magats nest and causing civil unrest. So do we just stick it out for the next two years and hope we can freely vote and try to gain some sanity back into this country?
Yeah, we’re the people that always love to talk about evidence. So, let’s make sure we’re applying that principle evenly and demanding and looking at evidence for claims we like the sound and feeling of.
Thanks for this! The bullet ballot thing seemed odd but without any real access to information about actual counts I didn’t know what to think of it.
Good to know it’s more than likely nonsense and we just really suck as a nation and did let Trump win legitimately. :/
Yeah, he won through good old misinformation, propaganda, and blatant lies because his opposition can’t keep the successful message of hope and change going to engage apathetic voters like Obama did and would instead rather pal around with Liz Cheney and Netanyahu to try and peel away MAGA voters.
While voter suppression and Republican election meddling is a real issue, our country sucking is the real underlying problem. We couldn’t even do a fucking thing about the insurrection four years ago.
Yup. They had a hook with Walz and the ‘weird’ talking points. That seemed to really resonate with the Republicans and made them go out of their way to highlight out weird they were.
Then they pivoted to try and win Republicans. And… they died.
‘Weird’ probably wouldn’t have won them the election or anything, but it was working. It could have been paired with good, short talking points about helping people, and Walz is a good enough, and genuine enough (or at least appears to be so) guy to really sell those talking points in a way that didn’t feel pandering or cynical.
But they really wanted that right-wing vote. It’s like right-wingers telling the Democrats that they’ll never vote for them just makes the Dems want to win them over that much more.
It’s wild.
She could have said “medicare for all” once, instead of turning her back on the progressive left and she would have won.
She could have said, “Gazan’s are human beings, and its important that all US allies receiving aid are in compliance with the Leahy law…” instead of turning her back on the anti-war left and Muslims and Arabs, and she would have won.
She could have said “The efforts of 4 years of recovering from the pandemic were hard, but clearly we need to do better for US taxpayers who are still feeling economic hardship”, instead of spitting in the face of Americans by telling us the economy is great, when those Americans are having to put groceries back on the shelves because they simply can’t afford them.
The campaign was a disaster. Harris was a turd in a punch bowl of a candidate and with even some basic, basic strategy she could have steered through the wickets. It was actually an easy election to win. At the turn of the tide Trump was almost as unpopular as Biden. She blew it at every possible turn.
Lessons learned for the electorate: STOP FUCKING LISTENING TO MSNBC, CNN, NPR, ALL OF THEM!
I think you are touching on some real issues, BUT the Harris campaign never said that the economy was doing great. They very deliberately avoided that message (though Biden was very different).
If anyone couldn’t see how Trump would be worse than Harris, that is honestly their fault. And now we are seeing the proof of that. It wasn’t a hypothetical, we already experienced Trump once, and we’re being proven right about him again. This isn’t a failing of the DNC to inform people of this, they screamed it at the top of their lungs. They said it during the debates. I was jazzed to vote Harris and keep that asshole away from office. But to enough people, things like that didn’t matter and they voted against their best interests, and now things are going to get substantially worse than if they voted Harris.
If anyone couldn’t remember what life was like 4 years ago during the pandemic (and throughout Trump’s first presidency), that’s on them. I honestly can’t care about people’s issues with the DNC when we’re faced with an entirely worse option like Trump. The time for fighting to reform the DNC is during midterms where grassroots candidates can gain traction without threat of us losing it all. Allowing a much smaller volume of complaints about the DNC to take precedent over the tremendous evil Trump presents is a failing of the voters and is why we need the department of education more than ever. This is our brexit.
Building back our institutions after this is going to be much more difficult than it is tearing them down. If Democrats win the next election, I wonder if they’re going to be blamed for not fixing things fast enough after their predecessor… Like, oh I dunno… The economy?
They said it during the debates. I was jazzed to vote Harris and keep that asshole away from office. But to enough people, things like that didn’t matter and they voted against their best interests, and now things are going to get substantially worse than if they voted Harris.
I was excited up to and including the debate. Then everything she did after killed that excitement and I ended up voting for her and Walz only to vote against Trunp. Not because I wanted her in office, and I can see why people stopped caring.
Trump was not more appealing than Harris at any time frame during this election cycle, and I don’t understand why people stopped caring, he’s the same person or worse compared to his last presidency. But they’re gonna care now, let me tell you. My only hope is that they mentally link the hurt Trump is going to bring with their lack of care during this past election, and learn from their mistake.
It isn’t about Trump being more appealing. It is about being motivated to show up to vote. Harris killed that motivation, which is why voters for Dems turnout was so low.
You don’t understand it because you are focused on her opponent, as was I. But Dems succeed when turnout is higher, and apparently stopping fascism by continuing the same mediocre Dem policies isn’t enough motivation.
apparently stopping fascism
by continuing the same mediocre Dem policiesisn’t enough motivation.I’ll take great Democratic policies that Trump will sadly now take credit for (IRA, chips, infrastructure, to name a few) over Trump any day.
A better version of Social Security could exist instead of propping up the stock market with IRAs that are great for the middle class and suck for the poor is why IRAs are mediocre.
Dems barely make efforts on infrastructure. Yeah, biggest plin blah bkllah blah is still miles behind where it needs to be. Mediocre.
They failed to get single payer healthcare like first world countries because they wanted to keep the stupid filibuster that the Republicans will most likely ditch now that they have all three branches.
Dems still give handjobs to the police.
Not to mention Dems are also pretty shitty when it comes to international politics. They don’t start wars I guess, so there’s that.
So many fucking people here desperate to absolve themselves of their idiotic decision to vote for Trump, a third party, or not at all. They desperately want to believe that Democrats would be just as bad, and that it’s the DNC’s fault that they chose to ignore the dozens of people who explained to them exactly why they were making a bad choice.
Anything to avoid taking responsibility.
Just before the election I was still coming across people absolutely incensed that Biden hadn’t fixed the college loan issue yet.
The fact that it kept getting blocked by Trump judges was completely fucking lost on them. OK cool… Now he gets to appoint more. That should help /s
Hey, guess what: at least some of us folks who STFU during the campaign and voted for Harris, like good little Democrats, are capable of being honest about how they fucked up after the fact.
Why aren’t you?
For me, I just wanna know the % of people who voted for him that weren’t swayed by misinformation but actually want all of what’s about to come. Those are the real people to worry about. I can get 1%, but what if it’s more like 10%…
I think a fair number of people voted for him because they thought higher tariffs and fewer immigrants would increase blue collar wages. Which is not necessarily wrong, but it ignores a lot of additional potentially catastrophic effects on the economy.
The bullet ballot nonsense was started by a Republican kook that’s made fake election claims about every election going all the way back to 2008.
Definitely something to ignore.
I wanted it to be true so bad, and sure there were some illegal actions taken (Elmo), it’s not enough to overturn anything. It’s okay to feel defeated, but not to ignore facts. We lost.
Side note, watch Veritasium’s video on “smarter people get this question wrong”, it talks about how your political position can blind your critical thinking skills and is important to remember. You can take nothing at face value, even your own thoughts.
“Bullet votes” completely jibe with the narrative that a small but significant percentage of Trump voters are willfully low-information, so un-invested in the democratic process that they can’t be bothered to take the time even to vote a straight party ticket, and think that voting for a single strong-man will fix all their problems. The non-electoral factors behind all this are deeply troubling, and many of them are criminal, but for the actual voting there’s no need to invent a conspiracy when simple shittiness will do.
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So we upgraded from blaming minority voters to literally Trump’s own 2020 election mouthpiece lmao.
Just saying, with that orange turd, every accusation is a confession
It seems people just aren’t going to accept elections any more. Yeah trump was the most blatant and harmful but the democrats were pushing russiagate until it hit its dead end and now this.
Starting to think democracy may not be able to survive the internet
How do you define Russiagate?
Are you saying Russia didn’t/does not meddle in elections? Or that Trump and his team didn’t have ties to it? Or that Russian influence didn’t actually tip the scales? Or something else?
- Yeah they at least tried to
- Probably but those ties seem very loose. From what I can tell there wasn’t much organization at all in the trump campaign , much less effective coordination with Russia. It wasn’t Kissinger coordinating with south Vietnam to keep the war going or Reagan talking to Iran to not free the hostages.
- Maybe but that’s only because the scales were so even. It may be a reason she lost, we can’t know because we don’t know how many people it actually flipped but my guess is very small compared to the other reasons clinton lost. I don’t think it invalidates the election though as fundamentally it was still Americans freely choosing Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton through the broken electoral college. This happens quite often, like the examples above, even in this election it looks like netanyahu was holding off on a ceasefire in Lebanon to keep Biden from getting a win, that doesn’t invalidates the election though.
Also I think democrats used it as a cope and scape goat for there electoral problems instead of addressing the actual major reasons people voted for trump. They failed to learn there lesson in 2016 and now here we are.
Loose? Are you uninformed or purposefully spreading disinformation?
I have no idea if it tipped the scales either and I agree we’ll never know. But it seems important to point out the fact that the Trump campaign consistently cooperated with a hostile foreign government. If you want to call that “pushing russiagate”… Sure? I guess?
They failed to learn there lesson in 2016 and now here we are.
You realize they won in 2020, right? So, did Dems learn a lesson which won them 2020 and then forget this time around? It kinda seems like you’re just spewing nonsense.
Kind of burying the lead on that quote:
The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities
So trump didn’t try and punish a foreign power that helped him get in, and instead talked to them after the fact. I guarantee he’s talking to netanyahu right now, but no one cares about that. There’s nothing in that quote proving he was coordinating during the election.
2016 was lost because the democrats are losing the working class because they didnt offer them anything and were just pointing to the horror of trump and hoping it would scare voters to there side. In 2020 Biden was pushing a fairly progressive program with build back better plus people wanted an adult at the wheel to handle covid. Then kamala ran the same campaign as Clinton running on minor iterative improvements that most people won’t see while pointing to the boogie man of trump and hoping that will scare people, and it failed again, even worse this time.
Democrats need to listen there base and try and win the working class back. Biden did, he opened his doors to Bernie and Warren and gave them a place in the party. He was rewarded for that with record voter turnout. This time we didn’t have a primary and dissent was stifled due to the threat of trump.
At least that’s my view of it, why do you think we lost?, we can at least say this time it’s not Russian interference.
