Some people my server admin uncle included believe that bringing any device to China automatically compromises it even if you reinstall a new OS. Is this warranted as some random person?
Can I go to my public sites and/or VPN into my servers?
Edit: I go there all the time. Also, I can take these precautions but I can’t expect my family to take them. What about family members phones?
A lot of great replies, thank you! Would love the read more specifics so I can know exactly the threats and my actions
Also, this is not an anti-China post. My field is Chinese related. Just learning more about the hosting side :)
Do not bring your normal personal devices to China. They are notorious for injecting spyware on foreign devices at every opportunity. Use a freshly formatted device and create all new accounts to use with it.
Regarding services: do not use self-hosted services unless you you spin up fresh, isolated instances of your services for use while abroad and spin them down afterwards, including formatting any OS they were hosted on.
Regarding VPN: because we are assuming that any device used in China is compromised, do not connect to your VPN unless you have set up a segregated VLAN and are connecting through a VPN server instance created specifically for use while in China.
Basically, assume anything you use in China is compromised. And assume your connections are being monitored. And assume that any device you are connecting to from China is at risk of being compromised. So everything needs to be segregated from the rest of your network and set up specifically to be deleted after you’re back home.
Do you have any links to read more about this? Thanks for a very detailed response.
Is there anyway to bring my phone and laptop without this risk? I can totally format my laptop completely but can’t do that with my phone.
Unfortunately, no, not really. They are absolutely able and willing to confiscate your devices at any time once you’re on Chinese soil, and once you’ve lost physical control, that’s the end of trust for that device. Even beyond that, it’s not unheard of for there to be vulnerabilities in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc that make your device susceptible to wireless attacks. IMO it’s not worth the risk.
Here is just one example of this type of thing uncovered by The Guardian, New York Times, and others in a joint investigation: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/chinese-border-guards-surveillance-app-tourists-phones
I know both Australia and UK have laws that allow border to take and copy your phones, laptops and storage devices. It’s not unusual.
Most countries give customs and border agents broad latitude to do stuff like that. I’ve had it happen in Vietnam, the US, and Turkey, among others.
Burners, all the way
Agree - better safe to not risk it when crossing borders. Even if you don’t have anything incriminating your identity can be stolen and used.
Can I go to my public sites
I would not recommend. Remember, wherever you step, your feet are leaving traces. Your public sites may be a little too publicly well-known afterwards.
and/or VPN into my servers?
VPN’s might not work from there, or the use may be considered a crime.
I’m wondering if this is a real threat, or a conspiracy theory. If it’s a real threat, wouldn’t be the same with the NSA?
Grapheneos with a dedicated profile with those China apps. Dont allow the profile to run in the background. Then just use tor with snowflake or one of the many methods of tor to bypass the firewall of China.
A lot of these comments are downright unreasonable.
It’s important to evaluate your threat model critically. The average tourist (that isn’t going to Western China) or student is not a target for surveillance or data extrication attempts, especially firmware level attacks that are very specific to devices and are expensive to research and implement.
Companies tend to require employees to carry burner devices for international travel because that’s just good practice. You’re far more likely to lose your device when traveling, border officials have broad discretion to search for and access your devices, and companies tend to have high value information available to their devices past the corporate gateway, like trade secrets, technical designs, accounting records or employee data. That applies to any country, even Western countries.
Take your privacy seriously, but the notion that anything that touches Chinese soil means your devices are instantly compromised is a bit of a fallacious claim. Critically evaluate your role, the information you carry and why you might be the target of anything.
Anyways, as far as VPNs go - technically not illegal. Companies, universities, etc. all have sanctioned MLP gateways in Hong Kong to bypass the firewall. Every expat in China uses a VPN. There’s only one public case of anyone ever being arrested for using a VPN (and it was under a catch-all law), the others were all operators of ShadowSocks/V2Ray airports.
Tailscale and WireGuard is dicey in Mainland China. If you’re just a short term visitor, just buy a 3HK roaming sim for China and call it a day. As a best practice, you don’t really want to expose your self hosted services to the web anyways, so I would probably not even bother trying to VPN from a mainland connection directly.
I never got Plex or Jellyfin to work well on actual Mainland internet connections, simply because the Chinanet backbone that most people in China use is excruciatingly bottlenecked to the point that torrenting from other Chinese peers is just a much more pleasant experience.
