You’re a prison abolitionist. You’re in a high stakes discussion where you have to answer seriously and be convincing.

Someone asks you : “yeah, but what are we to do with people breaking the law, then? What will you replace prisons with ?”

What will you answer?

Edit : Thanks a lot for your answer, they were very interesting and reflecting different ways to frame a world without prisons.

Except from one or two edgelord hot takes, of course.

  • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    I don’t think it’s possible to abolish prisons for all crimes. But why does a thief or a drug dealer (or worse, just a drug user) need to be in prison? What about the nature of their crimes necessitates imprisonment as a reasonable method of corrections?

    If the point is stopping people from reoffending, prisons don’t do that. Like objectively. Recidivism in the US is super high, and going to prison predicts increases in the severity of crimes people commit.

    So, what reduces recidivism? Eliminating the factors that drove them to crime in the first place. So, you monitor them closely - house arrest, assigned social/case workers, etc. Like a more robust parole system for nonviolent offenders. With enough surveillance, you can reduce the likelihood of reoffence by making the chances of getting caught much higher. This enhanced monitoring would be temporary.

    For violent offenders and more serious criminals, maybe prisons are still necessary. But they don’t have to be dehumanizing and can provide necessary health/psychiatric, educational, social, and job skills training.

    You could make the corrections system more effective by making society easier for criminals to reintegrate into. If you’re a felon and you can’t find work because you’re a felon - how are you going to afford to live within the confines of the law? Step 1) jobs programs for felons with a path to eliminating non-violent offenses from your record as it relates to work with exceptions as necessary. Step 2) improve the education system to prevent people from turning to crime and to help give former criminals relevant job skills to earn an honest living. Step 3) provide healthcare to people - having access to healthcare for mental and addiction-related conditions is super important to reduce crime.

    Basically - prison abolition isn’t about just letting rapists and murderers go free with no consequences. Instead, people in favor of prison abolition are typically in favor of reducing the societal pressures to commit crimes and preventing reoffense.

    • iii@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 month ago

      In short, prison abolition isn’t about abolishing prisons?

      Bad name choice in my opinion, as it immediately makes me think: what a dumb idea. There will surely always be people beyond a point of no return.

    • Cadenza@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 month ago

      Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed answer. I agree with you about almost everything.

  • Jourei@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 month ago

    Plenty of word around that prison is a poor deterrent and to me it doesn’t make much sense as a punishment. It should be a tool to guide the person on right tracks.

    For instance, a fellow gets caught for not paying a million in taxes so they get sent to prison where they will continue to not pay and instead spend government money. For a situation like this I suggest they remain captive (not imprisoned) working for the government until they have paid their debt. Alike in prison, someone will have a constant eye on the fellow and every breath they take. After all they managed to accumulate a million of tax money so they obviously are capable.

    Those who we genuinely can’t trust to not be out of trouble should be locked up, for a reason.

  • SeanBrently@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 month ago

    The basis of prison abolition is not the idea that we should replace prision with something else. We start by understanding that it is the structure of our society that creates and perpetuates systems of crime and punishment. The emphasis on punishment does little or nothing to address the safety, health and property rights of the public. So it can be seen that it is a public problem that requires a public solution: the vast resources spent on catching and punishing people would be better spent on prevention by making mental health, substance abuse and addiction treatment affordable and available to everyone.

    Rather than punish, a greater effort could be made to help rehabilitate people who have lost control of themselves and their lives, to restore them to living in harmony within their communities. Of course there will always be a small proportion of the population that are unable to healthy lives, unable to resist resorting to theft, violence, and desperate attempts at self-medication. Such persons do not benefit from punishment.

  • Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 month ago

    Seize the illegally obtained wealth, pay civil damages to the victims and rehabilitation program including education and psychological support.

    I’m fine saying that people like Dutroux, Breivick or Abdeslam shall not be out before a very long-time. However, they’re not the average criminal.

    Let me return you the question, there is that single-mother who struggle to pay the rent, and debt collector knocked her door a few times, a drug dealer ask her if she can keep a package for them and that someone will pick-it up tomorow night and give her 500 € in exchange, does that woman (Which is now part of drug dealer network) desserve jail-time ? Wouldn’t giving her the mean to pay the rent prevent her from needing to take part of drug traffic ? That drunk person has a fight in the train station, the other fighter falls on the track as the train arrive, now a person died. Does the person desserve to spend 5-10 years in jail ? Wouldn’t Rehab work better ?

    I’ll go even further and say that welfare program, teacher, psychiatrist and some other do way more at preventing crime than police, jail and hard on crime policies

    • iii@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      Wouldn’t giving her the mean to pay the rent prevent her from needing to take part of drug traffic ?

      From context I gather you’re from Belgium. Isn’t there already OCMW/CPAS for free housing?

      What do you do when it’s the single mom in free housing that just wants 500EUR extra cash? Find political consensus to give her a bigger free house, with a pool, and a credit card?

  • communism@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 month ago

    We don’t replace prisons, because putting people in cages is bad. There’s nothing to “replace” them with. If I wanted to “replace” prisons I wouldn’t want to abolish them. That’s like asking what you’ll replace slavery with, how on earth are we going to get cheap labour otherwise.

    Bourgeois law should be abolished too. I have no respect for “the law”.