I definitely see this as “we can’t get away with the boys club anymore” rather than a problem with Gen Z. Gen Z won’t hide their unhappiness with any of the -isms and will call it out instead of just keeping their head down.
Right, it’s not the lack of skills to disagree. What it is, is the bravery to not tolerate intolerance, and they stand for what they believe the world should be. Making mr grouper proud out here.
Yeah, I’m proud of the younger generation. I see them standing up against the kinda shit that my generation at the same age just accepted or perpetrated.
“YoU CaNT sAy AnYtHiNg AnYMoRe”
“How am I supposed to compliment a woman these days?”
It’s the same boomers that make those complaints whining about Gen Z
This is exactly it. I’ve seen this exact thing play out a bunch of times. It’s a real threat to them, because so many of these people got to where they are because they know how to work that frat boy culture to their advantage, and now they suddenly have to deal with people who don’t find their shit funny. The reality is that they don’t actually have any real skills besides the politics of being loud and borish.
The thing is, if you say “black lives matter” they’ll quietly run to HR and claim they don’t feel comfortable and they don’t want politics in the workplace. Then they’ll turn right around and go back to talking fondly about their date rape days at Cornell
Fair enough. But if you don’t tell someone why you are unhappy with them or the situation they control, then nothing improves for anyone.
I believe the impetus is on the bigot to figure their shit out. It is exhausting arguing with bigots, and it is not people’s job to teach them how not to be a bigot. There is enough information out there now that you should know not to be an intolerant asshole, and if someone chooses instead to be a piece of shit, I’m comfortable with them being ostracized while they sort themselves out. And if they can’t, I’m comfortable with them dying old, alone and confused wondering why nobody visits them.
This sounds like you are promoting an “I’m right, your wrong, and I have no responsibility to correct or educate.” mentality. I’m not sure if trusting the people with opposing views to change on their own is the best approach. I think only deepens divides and entrenches opposition.
People with opposing ideas do exist in a vacuum and will have no problem putting the time in to recruiting others to their way of thinking and promoting similar thinkers to positions of power and influence. Ostracizing those you disagree can just as easily put you in a bubble of isolation, or an echo chamber, as them.
Not to mention that discussing opposing ideas improves understanding both by defending your views and by better understanding the why and origins of their ideas.
There’s nothing wrong with having a “not my responsibility to correct or educate mentality”. These assholes are grown adults. If they haven’t figured things out by now then fuck em.
I think that there is something wrong with the “not my job” approach. I believe in the saying “The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.”
Assuming that everyone has shared in your socioeconomic upbringing and therefore has the same access to diverse ideas is flawed.
I am personally inspired by Daryl Davis, a black musician who, through simple conversation, has convinced grown adult Ku Klux Klan members to change their ways and renounce the KKK.
I believe that people should work towards the changes they want to see manifest in the world.
Yeah, I think you’ve got me right there. When it comes to being a bigot, I do believe in ostracizing and silencing, in order to put them in a tiny fringe echo chamber. That is much safer than having their ideas out in the open. Racists and bigots should be afraid of stating their opinion, this way their backwards-ass ideas die out with them. Because people aren’t racist from well thought out rational thought. Their racist because of emotions like fear and anger. Something is going wrong in their life and it’s easier to blame a marginalized group than it is it take responsibility. No amount of debate will fix that, and I’m tired of trying. Fuck them.
I also firmly believe in the paradox if tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant, and part of that includes not treating their opinions as valid. Because they are not.
I understand the frustration and seeming futility in trying to change the minds of those with opposing views. It takes constant work and vigilance, but it is important challenge their ideas. Even if you make zero impact on them, you can reach other people. Especially if you have the discussion in a public venue, like an internet firum. Even if you don’t change any minds, if you truly believe in something then you should continue to work towards it.
As for the “they should already know better” argument, I wonder if you are familiar with Daryl Davis, a black musician who would sit with members of the KKK and talk to them about their beliefs. He has well over 20 robes from former klansmen who have given him their robes after he changed their views with those conversations. Turns out that most of them have never had anybody calmly listen to and then dispute the racist claims that they grew up with and have heard repeated their whole lives.
Notice how I am talking about confronting and challenging ideas, not tolerating them.
The only thing evil needs to thrive is for good people to do nothing.
I know of him, and applaud him. If I were a better man, perhaps I could do as he did. However, I no longer have that energy in me to waste. What I can do is shut their voices out of my world and my family’s world. From there, I hope the Daryl Davis’s of the world help them heal. But it will not be me.
I read this as Gen Z doesn’t tolerate the boomer/older Gen X intolerant/racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic bullshit that younger Gen X/Older Millennials had to, and a lot of folks receiving this deserved pushback don’t like it.
¯\(ツ)/¯
Nailed it, except that older Gen X and boomers who weren’t part of the intolerant majority ALSO had to put up with all that bullshit.
Very good point that I should have included. Thanks!
No, it’s more that the boomers/older Gen X treats any sign of even polite disagreement as attacks on their very character. Many of them simply cannot accept that their views are outdated, and any challenges to their view is a disrespectful slight.
It’s very telling that many of them still complain about millennials as children ruining everything to this day, when the oldest millennials are in their early 40s, and they are somehow shocked that Gen Z is even more progressive and vocal about their views than us millennials.
Not to mention some views of older folks are absolutely bigoted. But it’s the kids who are wrong, apparently.
It’s impressive, you’re absolutely everywhere :o
It’s rare for me to have this much free time, you’ll probably see a lot less of me here once work starts again.
You will be sorely missed then.
But not in my bedroom 🥲
Look, I don’t care at all what views my coworkers might possess. And that’s the problem. Because when one of these fuckwits starts going on a bigoted rant at work, I do NOT want to hear it, and I surely don’t give a damn about it. So yeah, no, we can’t work alongside fuckwits. If they knew how to shut up, we could.
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Very well put
Honestly this isn’t a gen z thing, it’s just a shit article thing. 70% of this piece is just this one fucking guy bitching about the “kids these days”
Welp, Gen Z, it’s your time in the furnace I guess.
I remember when “Millennials are ruining everything” articles were the fodder for lazy writers, now it’s crap like this.
I remember when we killed Applebee’s? That was a fun weekend.
To be fair, Applebee’s needed to be ruined.
I agree but I’ll still miss the quesadilla burger. It was the only half-decent item in their menu.
We just figured out we can microwave our own food
Or maybe it’s because they have zero patience for people who can’t understand the idea of basic human rights?
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Have your nieces heard of internalized misogyny?
We just reposting the same things from 10 years ago with “millennials” replaced by “gen z?”
Shut up you
millennialgen z snowflake! You’ll take the recycled content and enjoy it/s, if it wasn’t obvious….I’m noting that same trend myself.
Does that mean Gen Z are going to kill the diamond industry again?
Turgenev enters the chat . . .
No, there’s a radical difference here. Yeah, some of these stories are “young people today” bullshit that will always be true. Gen Z truly got fucked by the pandemic and social media.
Judging by the comments here, there won’t be any discussion. Which kinda proves the point.
Social media is the real world today. Yes, the pandemic put everyone’s life on hold for 3 years and that’s going to screw up people’s formative years, but this article hasn’t done much to separate that out from the gripes every new generation entering the workforce gets.
Fair point on the second bit, but I don’t understand social media being the real world.
You and I are having a real discussion right now. It’s every bit as real as discussion as if we were having it in person.
Social media has been around over 20 years. The attitude that it’s some other world outside the real world that doesn’t count is antiquated. Social media is part of life, just like everything else we do.
Some guy says some thing. This is no different from an out of touch boomer saying kids these days don’t want to work.
I ain’t gonna give any weight to a freaking anecdote from any one, let alone a manager. Show me the proof or sit down.
Personally I’m just not fond of working with geriatric, lead-poisoned nazis but that’s just me.
Gen Z seem to lack the skillset to know their place. -boomer boss
I’m guessing someone got called out for being a right wing shit head and now his poor little feelings are hurt.
Channel 4 are one of the most progressive channels in the UK and she’s married to a man who works in renewable energy. I very much doubt she’s particularly right leaning.
Well, Labour is legitimately sliding right, and it’s become somewhat common among the so-called “left” in the UK to make a scapegoat out of trans people - it really wouldn’t surprise me that an older, liberal woman in the UK would have some right-wing things to say.
I’m not a big fan of Starmer, but he’s slid labour back from the far left to the centre, not to the right. I will accept your point on the trans issue though, otherwise left leaning women who should know better are acting as useful idiots for the right on that one.
The benefit cap is right wing.
Banning your MPs from joining picket lines is right wing.
Purging the left wing from your party -but leaving the right wing untouched- iis right wing.
You can only call Starmer centrist if your view is one from a right wing perspective.
The Overton window in the UK is too far to the right, as is our policy on almost every area. We need a strong push to the left to take us back to the centre, not a slightly watered down, more palatable version of Thatcherism.Well, I didn’t mean to say Labour is far-right or anything, just that they’re sliding in the direction of the right.
Meanwhile said CEO is the one that intentionally promotes ‘clueless’ people (Read overtly offensive) people as leaders and then paints the workers that are coerced to humor them as in the wrong when they don’t put up with it.
Have you ever actually watched Channel 4? They’re one of the more progressive voices in UK media, I very much doubt that their management are all secretly bigots behind the scenes.
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