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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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This whole story is the most insane, fucked up thing I have read in years.
Especially the companion story, Hospital bosses ignored months of doctors’ warnings about Lucy Letby. The hospital execs seem almost as callous as the murderer. Holy shit. You have to have some sort of psychological or empathetic disorder as manager or director to fail to act when babies are dying like flies, there is one common factor, and your response isn’t to immediately investigate and take that common factor out of the equation as a safety measure.
They just refused to act for 3 years (where 17 babies died mysteriously or had near-fatal unexplained events in one year) - except silence, threaten and bully the doctor and seven (!) pediatric consultants who repeatedly raised the alarm and called for outside investigation. Since the murderer was removed from the neonatal ward in 2016, there has apparently been 1 baby death. In total, in 7 years.
I don’t know how you would live with yourself knowing that you actively aided a serial killer by refusing to listen to multiple people warning you about them and pleading with you to act.
This is a huge point. They knew. They shushed it up. They need to be all brought to account as well.
Yes, it’s impossible that they didn’t at least entertain the idea that she was guilty with so many incidents and so many people speaking out. And the execs immediate response to that is to… silence the whistleblowers, to maintain the reputation of the hospital. Absolutely repulsive. They come very close to being accessories to the murders, in my opinion.
The attitude of the medical director is so British
I think what makes me even sadder is that Ian Chambers (one of the directors at the hospital where Letby committed her crimes) left his job shortly after Letby was charged… only now to be interim director of nursing at a Salford NHS trust.
He spent years enabling Letby and covering up her crimes, gaslighting and silencing numerous senior doctors… only to go somewhere else and continue managing at a high level the moment that there was a risk of facing consequences for his failures.
I don’t know what’s more disturbing- the fact that Chambers moved on once he realised the jig was up, or that another trust ACTUALLY HIRED HIM. Disgusting.
Some of these chief execs may be corporate psychopaths themselves, and they’d be more interested in arse covering and making sure they’re protected than having external powerful strangers poking thru everything they do.
You’d probably deny, deflect, and accuse everyone else of 20/20 hindsight, while taking the one piece of your soul that’s shouting no! I failed those kids! and packing it away in a closet with no door where no one can hear it scream.
Yeah, I guess that’s what I would do.
This story is horrendous, most killers seem to gain something from it. But this woman just kills babies for no reason then hates herself for it afterwards. The whole story is just awful, what a terrible person.
I’m no psychologist but from what she’s doing she seems to have a need for power and control, and surrounds herself with infants who are pretty easy to control. I would not be surprised if the killings occured after the victim began to cry (like any baby does) and she was unable to get them to stop, undermining her fragile self worth and sense of control and leading to a period of aggression, during which she kills the infant. Once it’s done and the object of her aggression is gone her mind clears up and she realises what she’s done, and enters a state of remorse. I doubt she does it because she wants to, I’m sure she’s a very disturbed person, and her mental health issues are what prevented her from seeking help and from stopping. Of course some of the blame lies with the people who were aware and let it happen. It’s like letting a hungry wolf into a daycare and doing nothing to stop it.
Her scrawled note thing looks like the kind of insane ramblings you’d see in a horror game. There is something deeply, disturbingly wrong with that woman and I hope they get a shrink in there to see what the hell it is. Those families deserve to know why someone would do this kind of nightmare shit
Exactly right. We need to root out how this happened if we want to stop it happening again. That would probably include an honest long look at the NHS in general and whatever went on in her mind in particular. It’s never going to be as simple as “this woman’s a monster”. We need to know what impulses she felt and what justifications she told herself, knowing it was the worst kind of wrong. And how did she get into a position where it was possible. The families deserve answers and we all need to know it can’t happen again.
I wonder if she had sought out psychiatric help years ago but found a dead end.
Recently had a case in Denmark with a mass murderer who had been in loads of contact with psychiatric institutions but he apparently felt even more alone as a result.
I can’t read that too scribbled… And I’m not sure I want to… I can’t imagine what the parents must be feeling right now…
It’s really sad. Just a few snippets:
NO HOPE
I feel so alone
What does the future hold?
I AM EVIL I DID THIS
Scary how normal this woman looks…
A wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I can fix her
Very disgusting and messed up. Wow.
Burn, cunt.
Edit: Bizarre that this is downvoted - this cunt should fucking burn. She killed children. What the fuck is wrong with people?
I get the sentiment, it just doesn’t help anyone, you know? We obviously aren’t going to throw gasoline on her despite how fucked up she is.
I get your emotion, but I also understand the downvotes, because you don’t want to live in a society that responds to this kind of shit with more horrific deaths.
You’re right.
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Stories like these are why I’m not against the death penalty. Yes, I’m aware this wasn’t in the states.
You should be. We might still be wrong about her. Just a few weeks ago it was found that a guy in the UK was convicted and sentenced and served 20 years for a horrific crime he did not commit.
If we had the death sentence here, he would be dead now.We might still be wrong about her.
Honestly this looks like one of those statistical murder convictions. Random chance means that every few years, somewhere in the world, some medical professional will be present at a series of unusual deaths. They end up in prison even though there’s no other evidence.
I’m trying to find out what the actual evidence against Letby was, but so far I can only find one scribbled post it note written during a mental breakdown after being arrested. Which, she could have just been writing down things people were saying about her.
Random chance means that every few years, somewhere in the world, some medical professional will be present at a series of unusual deaths. They end up in prison even though there’s no other evidence.
This seems totally plausible, but I’ve never heard of it happening I don’t think. Do you have any cases you can point out? I’m having trouble finding a decent search term.
I’m trying to find out what the actual evidence against Letby was.
So am I, now, after reading your comment. I found this which gives the list:
- Her ‘presence’ around the time of each collapse (how many infant deaths happened during her employment for which she was NOT present?)
- she stole documents from the hospital, including a small number of documents with the names of babies she killed (probably a crime in itself, but fewer than 9% of the documents she had taken related to the babies in any way, so this could well be a bad habit)
- The post-it note (written after arrest, could well be nothing more than the frantic thoughts of someone in terror)
- The fact that it’s extremely difficult to prove she injected air (seems to work both ways)
So far, I’m not convinced. None of that evidence seems solid enough. Its worrying, not just because an innocent person may have just lost everything, but also because if there’s a systemic failure then creating a scapegoat is a surefire way to ensure it continues to happen.
That said, I know only what’s been reported, I wasn’t there and I don’t know everything. I want to believe the justice system is working properly and the people in full possession of the facts (judge, jury, barristers) made the right decision. I’m a little bit less inclined that way at the moment after hearing about the recent exoneration of Andrew Malkinson.
Do you have any cases you can point out?
I can’t find it now either, but I’ve read about a German doctor convicted as a serial killer solely because she was present at the deaths of too many patients. In that case she was present at the death of every patient for like 3 months, which sounds like strong evidence against her. Until you think about it and realize that if she murdered them, that means no one died of natural causes for 3 months. Also in that case the number of deaths on the ward actually went up after she was arrested.
Similar but not to do with doctors, Sally Clarke was wrongly convicted of killing her children, purely because both of them had died of SIDS. The prosecution said SIDS is rare and so it happening twice was impossible. What’s worrying about that case is, everyone now says the miscarriage of justice was that the prosecutor incorrectly calculated the chances of two children dying of SIDS, when the actual fallacy was using the statistics as evidence at all. 1 in 73 million is the chance that one specific child will die of SIDS. The chance that any child will die of SIDS is 100%! 200 die in the UK every year! You can’t just go around arresting every parent on the basis that they were unlucky!
What’s really missing in everything I’ve seen is an actual statistical analysis. Everything I’ve seen is just “She was present at 20 deaths, when her colleagues were only present at 10”. Yeah, but how unlikely is that? How many nurses per year will be in exactly the same situation in the UK, or in the world? How unusual was the number of deaths in that hospital while there was supposedly a serial killer operating, versus a normal year?
Its frustrating that most people seem to just see that she was present at 20 cases and terminate their thinking at that. To me, that’s not enough proof to convict. I wonder, for example, how many infants died at places she worked, where she wasn’t present? An analysis by someone with all the numbers, of the probability of this happening, would be really crucial, I think. Are there any other nurses in the UK who have been on shift for a similar number of infant deaths in a similar timespan? Should we try them for murder too?
I’m not sure about this because I’m too busy to dig into it properly and the information isn’t available readily, but I think the injection of insulin is provable, i.e. you can tell post mortem that an insulin injection was given, which is murder
I get where you’re coming from, for me the most damning evidence was looking at the number of deaths while she was working vs background rate, as well as how that rate changed after she was moved away from a ward or eventually suspended.
She’d have to be almost impossibly unlucky to fall victim to stats like this.
Sure, the chances of her specifically being that unlucky are astronomical. But the chances that somebody out of the 9 billion people on earth will be that unlucky are pretty good.
I’m sorry I gave you the impression that I gave a shit what you thought of my opinion on the death penalty. Let me be more clear: I Do Not Give A Shit About What You Think.
Am I clear enough?
I’m sorry I have you the impression that I gave a shit what you thought of my opinion on the death penalty. Let me be more clear: I Do Not Give A Shit About What You Think.
Am I clear enough?
Ok…Then why are you posting your opinion on a public forum?
What I think isn’t that important. Do you have anything of any substance to say about what I have written?
Your support for the death penalty is wrong morally, and incorrect rationally. That’s not my opinion, it’s just counting.
I’m of the mind that death is too good for anyone that should be sentenced to it. They should be made to suffer in an inhumane prison instead. The prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment should be lifted against monsters.
My personal design is would be a 3m stainless steel cube with a waste hole, food dispenser, and a rodent-cage water dispenser. That’s it. No medical treatment, luxuries, sunlight, exercise, distractions, diversions, bedding, or even clothing - not even human interactions. Just leave them in there to rot, and when they die, just hose it out and throw in another monster.
Torture is so so great!!! I love how you’re putting your sickness out there. You’re really leaning into it.
