Not sure how the Jewish would think about this but I’m starting to think it’s antisemitic to link the Jewish and Israel (apart from Israel defining itself as a Jewish state). Funny how that might go full circle.
I’m starting to think it’s antisemitic to link the Jewish and Israel
It definitely is. There’s few things more antisemitic than assuming that all Jews approve of the fascist government of an apartheid ethnostate committing genocide with impunity.
It’s right up there with the Alex Jones “globalist” conspiracy theories.
I am Jewish and yes, it is antisemitic to consider all Jews as Israelis. I do not support Israel, I have no affiliation with Israel, I have no interest in going to Israel apart from the archaeology. I’m from Indiana and I have a hell of a lot more in common with a Christian from Fort Wayne than an Israeli from Haifa.
Also, I know this is totally anecdotal, but every Israeli I have met in my life has been an asshole, which doesn’t exactly endear me to their country.
Netanyahu is the one who benefits most from people thinking all Jews are Israeli. I sure as hell haven’t benefited from it considering how many times I’ve had to justify myself just for who my ancestors were.
It’s crazy how the media portrays the ‘critisizing Israel is critizing the jewish’ position. Even politicians, at least in the west, lean in to it, but this could be due to the geopolitical position of Israel as an ally I suppose.
It is deliberate. Zionists love antisemitism. They love it when Jews are attacked outside Israel so they can claim to be the only safe place for them in the world. They love to use antisemitism to attack Jews, who do not want to be associated with Israel or are even critical of Israels practices or worst “questioning their “right to existence””.
I dunno. It definitely will incentivize “otherising” of the Jewish diaspora. Which may be a tertiary objective of it. And it will definitely lead to increased conflict.
Which is a shame because most the Jews I know well enough to talk to about it, are extremely anti-genocide, and they’re vocal about it because… they know “I’m Jewish, [awkward stare]” is a great way to not get dinged for politics at work. (At least when the political topic is Gaza.)
You are absolutely right on that. It keeps many anti-genocide Jews silent. It kept me silent for a very long time. I didn’t even like talking about being Jewish. What changed my mind was a British documentary by a British comedian named David Baddiel called Jews Don’t Count (based on his book of the same name), which is specifically about the “othering” of Jews, especially how many white people don’t see Jews as white, but most non-white people don’t see Jews as non-white. It’s made me more vocal about things. I had already seen the documentary a few years before, but what has truly cemented it for me was the “you have said the actual truth” tweet by Elon Musk in response to someone who said Jews were oppressing white people.
It was streaming somewhere where non-Brits could see it (I think Dailymotion), but it doesn’t appear to be there anymore.
especially how many white people don’t see Jews as white, but most non-white people don’t see Jews as non-white.
There are people who are Jewish and non-white though - Ethiopian jews for example.
Which seems to negate the (Zionist-created) argument that there is such a thing as a Jewish ethnicity in the first place, as opposed to Judaism simply being a multi-ethnic faith like Christianity or Islam.
Clearly though plenty of people who are Jewish are also white. And clearly there is a history of denying them this Whiteness once their faith is “discovered” by those they know. Same as Irish or, to a lesser extent, Italians and Slavs. Which is wrong - as is the concept of race/ethnicity/“Whiteness” in the first place
The vast majority of Jews are white. Yes, there are a few exceptions like Beta Israel, or what you call Ethiopian Jews (less than 200,000 people) or Yemenite Jews (Around 400,000 people), but considering there are around 16 million Jews on the planet, around 11 million Ashkenazi and around 2 million Sephardic. I think “Jews are white” is, as a general rule, a correct statement whether or not someone like Elon Musk think otherwise. I mean there are non-white Icelanders, but I think most people would say that claiming Icelanders are white without specifying that that’s only a generality is acceptable as a statement.
But there’s a difference between saying most Icelanders are white and saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic.
Either ethnicity/race is a necessary component of belonging to a group, or it isn’t. And if it isn’t, then idk how one can claim that such a group is an ethnicity.
So long as human beings who are black, Arab, Asian, etc can be Jewish, then idk how we can say that Jews are an ethnicity
No one is saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic or Jewish. The point is that when Elon says “you have said the actual truth” to someone who claims Jews are oppressing white people, he isn’t thinking of Beta Israel or Yemenite Jews. He isn’t even thinking of Sephardic Jews. He is thinking of Ashkenazi Jews, who are white. He just doesn’t understand that. He very likely doesn’t even know non-white Jews exist… but the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
Yeah I agree. But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish. Whiteness as a social construct is determined by skin color or national origin or both. Religion doesn’t have anything to do with it, although clearly through history it has - which catholics have also dealt with to some extent, especially in the WASP areas of the southern US.
But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish.
Except we aren’t. Many other white people don’t consider me white. I know that for a fact from personal experience. It doesn’t matter that I am genetically European and my skin is light.
And it is not just religion. I’m an atheist. That wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference to the SS or any of the people chanting, “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville or Elon “you have said the actual truth” Musk. I am a Jew regardless and, thus, not white.
By the way, this is also true of Roma people. They are (or can be anyway) in almost every way visually indistinguishable from the rest of the European population. It doesn’t matter, they’re not white anyway.
And it’s pretty straightforwardly so: for example claiming that somebody demonstrating against the killing of children by Israel is an anti-semite is implying that killing children is a Jewish thing to do, which is incredibly close to the “Jews eat babies” kind of propaganda from the Nazis: even the worst actual antisemites in the present day weren’t going around claiming that murdering children is a Jewish thing to do.
That’s just how out of control the Israeli ultra-violent and extremelly racist Fascists and their racist Fascist supporters in places like the US are.
Well, in the tribalist kind of thinking everybody must always be pro-some-faction or against-some-faction and the far-right (including Fascists tribes such as Zionists) are seldom deep thinkers and skeptics, so are almost without exception tribalists.
So it makes absolute sense that Zionists (and members of other political tribes whose “chiefs” have decided to support Zionism) claim that people who are demonstrating because of their Principles (in this case Humanist ones, like “though shall not kill innocent civilians”) are doing so because of being pro-some-faction. Further, I would even say that the Zionists absolutelly believe that claim they’re making and are speaking the truth as they see it: they simply cannot conceive of people being anything but tribalists who will put tribalism above all else (even any leftover Principles they might have) so people must be pro-some-faction or anti-some-faction to be demonstrating.
(PS: Whilst this is not evidence, it does match what I’ve observed first hand in situations like the Brexit Referendum in the UK. It also matches my observations as member of a political party in my homeland, since most political party members tend to be tribalist, even in leftwing parties, which as somebody who returned from abroad with no pre-existing “love for the team’s shirt” and chose a party to join and help based on the principles they seemed to support, made me quite an atypical member and gave a wonderful chance to observe political tribalists in their “natural environment”)
This is also why I believe a lot of the propaganda techniques being deployed by the Biden Campaign to try and get votes from people who are against the current actions of the Zionists because it goes against their Principles are incredibly misguided - Principled people aren’t pro-Biden or even anti-Trump, they’re pro or against some kinds of action no matter who does it, and things like “aversion to the murder of children” tend to be some of the stronguest principles around so likely to be much stronger for a non-tribalist that the “uuh, those other guys are bad” tribalist-heavy arguments.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many people don’t end up in the voting booth, intellectually ready to swallow their Principles and vote Biden purelly to stop Trump, and can’t actually bring themselves to cast a vote.
Anyways, all this are theories and if Biden keeps on supporting the Zionists and their Genocide, we shall see.
Not sure how the Jewish would think about this but I’m starting to think it’s antisemitic to link the Jewish and Israel (apart from Israel defining itself as a Jewish state). Funny how that might go full circle.
It definitely is. There’s few things more antisemitic than assuming that all Jews approve of the fascist government of an apartheid ethnostate committing genocide with impunity.
It’s right up there with the Alex Jones “globalist” conspiracy theories.
I am Jewish and yes, it is antisemitic to consider all Jews as Israelis. I do not support Israel, I have no affiliation with Israel, I have no interest in going to Israel apart from the archaeology. I’m from Indiana and I have a hell of a lot more in common with a Christian from Fort Wayne than an Israeli from Haifa.
Also, I know this is totally anecdotal, but every Israeli I have met in my life has been an asshole, which doesn’t exactly endear me to their country.
Netanyahu is the one who benefits most from people thinking all Jews are Israeli. I sure as hell haven’t benefited from it considering how many times I’ve had to justify myself just for who my ancestors were.
Thanks for your input!
It’s crazy how the media portrays the ‘critisizing Israel is critizing the jewish’ position. Even politicians, at least in the west, lean in to it, but this could be due to the geopolitical position of Israel as an ally I suppose.
It is deliberate. Zionists love antisemitism. They love it when Jews are attacked outside Israel so they can claim to be the only safe place for them in the world. They love to use antisemitism to attack Jews, who do not want to be associated with Israel or are even critical of Israels practices or worst “questioning their “right to existence””.
I dunno. It definitely will incentivize “otherising” of the Jewish diaspora. Which may be a tertiary objective of it. And it will definitely lead to increased conflict.
Which is a shame because most the Jews I know well enough to talk to about it, are extremely anti-genocide, and they’re vocal about it because… they know “I’m Jewish, [awkward stare]” is a great way to not get dinged for politics at work. (At least when the political topic is Gaza.)
You are absolutely right on that. It keeps many anti-genocide Jews silent. It kept me silent for a very long time. I didn’t even like talking about being Jewish. What changed my mind was a British documentary by a British comedian named David Baddiel called Jews Don’t Count (based on his book of the same name), which is specifically about the “othering” of Jews, especially how many white people don’t see Jews as white, but most non-white people don’t see Jews as non-white. It’s made me more vocal about things. I had already seen the documentary a few years before, but what has truly cemented it for me was the “you have said the actual truth” tweet by Elon Musk in response to someone who said Jews were oppressing white people.
It was streaming somewhere where non-Brits could see it (I think Dailymotion), but it doesn’t appear to be there anymore.
There are people who are Jewish and non-white though - Ethiopian jews for example.
Which seems to negate the (Zionist-created) argument that there is such a thing as a Jewish ethnicity in the first place, as opposed to Judaism simply being a multi-ethnic faith like Christianity or Islam.
Clearly though plenty of people who are Jewish are also white. And clearly there is a history of denying them this Whiteness once their faith is “discovered” by those they know. Same as Irish or, to a lesser extent, Italians and Slavs. Which is wrong - as is the concept of race/ethnicity/“Whiteness” in the first place
The vast majority of Jews are white. Yes, there are a few exceptions like Beta Israel, or what you call Ethiopian Jews (less than 200,000 people) or Yemenite Jews (Around 400,000 people), but considering there are around 16 million Jews on the planet, around 11 million Ashkenazi and around 2 million Sephardic. I think “Jews are white” is, as a general rule, a correct statement whether or not someone like Elon Musk think otherwise. I mean there are non-white Icelanders, but I think most people would say that claiming Icelanders are white without specifying that that’s only a generality is acceptable as a statement.
But there’s a difference between saying most Icelanders are white and saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic.
Either ethnicity/race is a necessary component of belonging to a group, or it isn’t. And if it isn’t, then idk how one can claim that such a group is an ethnicity.
So long as human beings who are black, Arab, Asian, etc can be Jewish, then idk how we can say that Jews are an ethnicity
No one is saying whiteness is a necessary condition to being Icelandic or Jewish. The point is that when Elon says “you have said the actual truth” to someone who claims Jews are oppressing white people, he isn’t thinking of Beta Israel or Yemenite Jews. He isn’t even thinking of Sephardic Jews. He is thinking of Ashkenazi Jews, who are white. He just doesn’t understand that. He very likely doesn’t even know non-white Jews exist… but the Jews who are white are often not considered to be white because they are Jewish. It is the othering of Jews we’re talking about.
Yeah I agree. But those people would be white regardless of if they were Jewish. Whiteness as a social construct is determined by skin color or national origin or both. Religion doesn’t have anything to do with it, although clearly through history it has - which catholics have also dealt with to some extent, especially in the WASP areas of the southern US.
Except we aren’t. Many other white people don’t consider me white. I know that for a fact from personal experience. It doesn’t matter that I am genetically European and my skin is light.
And it is not just religion. I’m an atheist. That wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference to the SS or any of the people chanting, “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville or Elon “you have said the actual truth” Musk. I am a Jew regardless and, thus, not white.
By the way, this is also true of Roma people. They are (or can be anyway) in almost every way visually indistinguishable from the rest of the European population. It doesn’t matter, they’re not white anyway.
Oh, have no doubt about that.
And it’s pretty straightforwardly so: for example claiming that somebody demonstrating against the killing of children by Israel is an anti-semite is implying that killing children is a Jewish thing to do, which is incredibly close to the “Jews eat babies” kind of propaganda from the Nazis: even the worst actual antisemites in the present day weren’t going around claiming that murdering children is a Jewish thing to do.
That’s just how out of control the Israeli ultra-violent and extremelly racist Fascists and their racist Fascist supporters in places like the US are.
I grew weary if anti-genocide protests being framed as pro-palestinian.
Neither side is entirely free of bloodshed. It’s about stopping the bloodshed which means, I’d think, reducing the us vs them, not entrenching it.
Does anyone know how that framing became so consistent? Not in a speculative way, but with evidence?
Well, in the tribalist kind of thinking everybody must always be pro-some-faction or against-some-faction and the far-right (including Fascists tribes such as Zionists) are seldom deep thinkers and skeptics, so are almost without exception tribalists.
So it makes absolute sense that Zionists (and members of other political tribes whose “chiefs” have decided to support Zionism) claim that people who are demonstrating because of their Principles (in this case Humanist ones, like “though shall not kill innocent civilians”) are doing so because of being pro-some-faction. Further, I would even say that the Zionists absolutelly believe that claim they’re making and are speaking the truth as they see it: they simply cannot conceive of people being anything but tribalists who will put tribalism above all else (even any leftover Principles they might have) so people must be pro-some-faction or anti-some-faction to be demonstrating.
(PS: Whilst this is not evidence, it does match what I’ve observed first hand in situations like the Brexit Referendum in the UK. It also matches my observations as member of a political party in my homeland, since most political party members tend to be tribalist, even in leftwing parties, which as somebody who returned from abroad with no pre-existing “love for the team’s shirt” and chose a party to join and help based on the principles they seemed to support, made me quite an atypical member and gave a wonderful chance to observe political tribalists in their “natural environment”)
This is also why I believe a lot of the propaganda techniques being deployed by the Biden Campaign to try and get votes from people who are against the current actions of the Zionists because it goes against their Principles are incredibly misguided - Principled people aren’t pro-Biden or even anti-Trump, they’re pro or against some kinds of action no matter who does it, and things like “aversion to the murder of children” tend to be some of the stronguest principles around so likely to be much stronger for a non-tribalist that the “uuh, those other guys are bad” tribalist-heavy arguments.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many people don’t end up in the voting booth, intellectually ready to swallow their Principles and vote Biden purelly to stop Trump, and can’t actually bring themselves to cast a vote.
Anyways, all this are theories and if Biden keeps on supporting the Zionists and their Genocide, we shall see.