• arin@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Pretty sure the guns i see the criminals use aren’t even legal. Crazy extended mags

    • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      This is the fundamental problem with gun regulation at the state level – they can be effectively abrogated by neighboring states with more lax regulation. FiveThirtyEight did a piece on this a while ago. In that article they show how strict gun laws in Illinois, California, and Maryland are defeated by guns flowing in from the surrounding states with more lax laws. The vast majority of gun crime is committed with guns which are illegally possessed, but were initially obtained through legal means.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        That’s why Mexico is suing Arizona, and maybe Texas? Cali has strict gun laws so the cartels can’t get guns here. They have no issues getting guns in AZ and TX

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Yeah, that’s basically the legal theory of the suits. It’s pretty novel and there are a lot of issues with it.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Big part of the modern drug trade is fueled by arms sales passing South as collateral.

          US arms exports are paid for with Latin American drug money. And those arms help gangs engage in the human trafficking they need to produce recreational narcotics and amphetamines at industrial scale.

          • jnk@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?

            I mean it makes sense, but doesn’t certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much? Are they using their brains at all?

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Wait are you implying that regulating fire arms in USA would help to deal with human traffic and drugs from mexico?

              More describing the economic incentives of the opposition.

              I mean it makes sense, but doesn’t certain people hate mexicans and like guns a bit too much?

              On paper, sure. But in practice the folks profiting from the exchange can just blame the drugs and the crime on stupid weak leftists in government to deflect blame from the arms trafficking.

              Are they using their brains at all?

              Garbage in, garbage out. If all your information comes from gun-sponsored sources, you’ll end up with gun-sponsored views.

            • AA5B@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              You can’t even argue that Mexican Cartel members have a constitutional right to bear arms.

      • UnpluggedFridge@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Even though the law can be circumvented, it nonetheless provides resistance. Traveling to another state, filling out paperwork, paying extra money, etc all provide additional obstacles to overcome. If someone was having an acute mental problem and felt compelled to eat a barrel, a simple few hours delay in acquiring a gun can make all the difference. For someone planning on using a gun for criminal activity, at some point they might just consider employment as an easier alternative if acquiring a gun is too much of a pain.

        We have already seen this effect in reverse with regard to immigration. Legal immigration is such a painful crapshoot that people are willing to surrender their fate to cartels as an alternative.

        • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          That’s great and all, but the data are in the article. Your hypotheticals don’t do much to change the numbers of guns flowing in from other states. If your argument is that the counterfactual would be even more gun crime, you’re welcome to make it; it’s just a really weak argument to lean into.

    • Captain Howdy@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Wait… You’re telling me that they continue to do crimes with guns even when the guns are illegal? Criminals? Really? I refuse to believe it.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      the guns i see the criminals use

      Are you running up to folks during a bank robbery and asking them for receipts?

      Or is this, like, guns you saw criminals use in a cartoon show?

      • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I assume they mean the ones they show on the news after a mass shooting.

          • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            I assume they’re more likely to show pictures of the weapon when the gun isn’t legal or has unusual features. I hadn’t even seen a bump stock before that shooting in Navada made them big news.

            • Glytch@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Just commenting that “some major cities” is super general especially after they were talking about guns they had supposedly seen personally.

              Also is calling them “ghost guns” supposed to make them scarier? Really? “Unregistered firearms” isn’t spooky enough?

    • lud@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      The point of most gun control is to reduce the amount of guns not necessarily remove them all.

      Of course at least some criminals will always have guns but lots of deaths could be prevented by just reducing the amount of people with illegal or legal guns.

      It’s also much more likely for a potential criminal to become a criminal with a gun if it’s really easy to get guns, especially if they or someone they know (like parents) already own one.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I think it was Chris Rock who said something like “if you want to reduce gun violence then you gotta make bullets more expensive.” You’re gonna see a drop in gunshots if every bullet costs $1k.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

      Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something … Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’

      And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’

      So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn’t have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      This is a great idea. The flood of illegal and stolen weapons wouldn’t be taxed but they all need ammo to do harm.

      I know home made ammo exists but I find it hard to believe it would ever be more than niche

      • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        And what makes you think bullets wouldn’t just be added to the black market?

        • Fades@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          They’re naive and desperately want to do literally anything since Republican fascists are focussed on not letting actual common-sense laws move forward.

          • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            You’re just putting more power into their hands. It’s not like the cops aren’t fascist, and we all know what they really protect. Not to mention seems like a ton of money that will go into red states.

          • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            Also, can you tell me more about who is blocking common sense gun laws? I’m not saying I think you’re wrong, I just want to learn more about who I should speak out against.

    • Fades@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Hey pal, let me let you in on a secret – bullets have already been getting more expensive, especially since COVID.

      https://publination.co/cost-of-ammunition-skyrocketing-in-2024/

      Maybe a comedian doesn’t have the secret key to gun control after all…

      You’re gonna see a drop in gunshots if every bullet costs $1k.

      First of all, that’s simply not true. Do you have any idea how easy reloading is? You seriously think these criminals are gonna just stop shooting people because they can’t buy bullets at wallmart no more? Even with that aside, the last thing we need is giving the rich and powerful gangs a monopoly on firearms.

      Common sense gun control isn’t that hard, instead of pushing things that don’t make any sense we should be pressuring the GOP fascists more.

  • Stern@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Illinois has some fairly strict gun laws… which is why so many guns used in crimes there come from all the states surrounding it. So I ask… do Arizona, Utah, and Nevada have these taxes as well?

    I’m not against gun control, but it seems to me that a state level fix ain’t it.

    • mecfs@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      In the US, especially in this polarised climate, the vast majority of changes to law start with one state, and then another, and then another until slowly it gets adopted around the country.

      • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        States have long been called “laboratories of democracy” for exactly this reason. I’d actually argue that the current climate calcifies the process of policy experimentation in states and among them.

    • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      california is big. It may work better than other places, but a fed licensing program would be ideal

    • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      Of course, it’s illegal for an FFL to sell a handgun to anyone with an out of state license unless they ship it to an FFL in the person’s home state for the NICs check and to make sure it complies with local laws. As for rifles, while there is no federal requirement stating the same, you’d be very hard pressed to find an FFL that is going to sell one to a person with an IL license unless it goes through the same system, all FFLs especially in border states know IL laws and are obviously hesitant to run afoul of them, iirc there is actually a local IL statute prohibiting the buying of long guns out of state without sending them through an FFL (like federally for pistols but for IL specifically with the long guns too) in it’s own that the neighboring FFLs would get in trouble with the ATF for violating, not to mention FOID and standard capacity mag bans

    • daltotron@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      This is the case for basically every issue, yeah, this is generally why telling people to start with politics at the local level isn’t really a great suggestion for most people.

      You can’t fund inter-city trains at the local level, really, that has to be done at the state level at the very least, usually in a state like california, only, and usually it has to be done with federal funding. If you don’t have inter-city trains or public transit, then it’s hard to make a walkable city. Basically what I’m saying is that it’s not atomizable, it has to be integrated with the rest of the network, which is why even the best US cities are pretty car-centric.

      This is true for a litany of other political issues besides just public transit.

    • JamesTBagg@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’s the real point. This will have no impact on violence, let alone make a dent. It’s about the controlling class disarming the working class. If only Marx had said something about this.

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Go pull the other one. Of course it will have an impact on violence. You can argue that the risk is not worth the rewards, but clearly raising prices will deter purchases, and in turn reduce gun violence incidents.

    • olympicyes@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Smoking is so much more prevalent in other states than it is in California. Even vaping has been dropping off recently. California overall has less binge drinking than other states but I’d attribute that as much to good weather and lots to do instead of just taxes.

  • Pacmanlives@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Issue is gonna be with stolen guns and ammo also it’s not far to get to the Nevada border if people wanna stock up

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      That’s not an issue. Reduction is the goal, not elimination.

  • Fades@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    and that could put a dent in gun violence

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • squid_slime@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Lovely another way to penalise the poor

    Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary

    Karl Marx

    • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Yeah, it will accomplish ensuring poor people have a harder time exercising their rights. Apparently that is something California is very interested in.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I really doubt it. I mean, I’m all for realistic and effective gun control, but this isn’t it.

    (and that’s not a perfection being the enemy of good statement)

      • bluewing@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        And makes it so only the wealthy can afford them. Increasing the class divide. Which would give the wealthy even more power over the average citizen than they already have. On the other hand, it should increase money for the politicians to dole out to their best buddies. It also might reduce the population a bit as this might be the last straw for some. Not that criminals care. They ain’t buying them in a store.

        How about if we make it totally illegal for people who live in cites over 40,000 populations to own any type of weapon. That would seem to solve most issues with city violence. Or is there a problem there also?

        Just food for thought. What is seen a good idea at first glance almost always have some kind of unexpected effects that need to be taken into account. Some of which might not be seen until much, much later.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          What about my second home in the mountains? I’m a poor person barely scraping by so when I drive my Bentley there, I need my full auto m-60 to hunt squirrels for dinner

        • orcrist@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          Class warfare is a serious issue, but I’m not seeing the huge threat that emerges from wealthy people having guns when less wealthy people don’t, because the police are already going to support the wealthy people.

          If you want to talk about class warfare, let’s talk about wage theft. Let’s talk about taxing the rich. Let’s talk about universal health care. Let’s talk about inheritance tax and systemic racism. In other words, let’s talk about the big ticket items, not a $200 gun.

          • bluewing@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            If you intend to “Eat the Rich” and prevent wage theft, you will need more than a cardboard sign. Even Tankies understand that to defeat the rich you need more than slogans.

            • orcrist@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              So let me get this straight. You think that if guns are taxed more, all of those poor people in California who are getting ready to violently overthrow the state and national government will be unable to do so. I’m curious when exactly you think they are going to do this. I’m also curious why you think that if they’re going to overthrow the government, they will be incapable of looting a gun shop in order to get their weapons.