No. This has been going on since 1948 when Israeli settlers decided to violently expel Palestinians from the land they wanted. And they haven’t stopped since.
And then there’s the issue of trying to justify a genocide by minimizing the actions being taken in Gaza and then saying the collective punishment is okay because of something Hamas did.
Yeah … No. This all happened after Israel fought the entire Arab world as the self proclaimed champion of Judaism. It’s not surprising they wanted to leave countries that viewed them as possible foreign agents. But very few were burned out of their homes and forced to leave. The entire narrative of Jews leaving the Arab world has been politicized specifically to downplay what Israel did to the Palestinians.
Oh you mean like when the Europeans came in and killed anyone in their way, including Christians?
Are you really using ancient crusades to justify a modern genocide?
The existence of war does not invalidate the coexistence of the locals. Not even the ones where the locals fought each other, because afterwards they went back to coexisting. That’s the natural state of nature, peace and coexistence. Even predators and prey drink from the same waterholes in a drought.
On another note, you should know there are 2 million Arabs living peacefully inside Israel as citizens with full rights. So it’s hard to argue for an ethnic cleansing case, even though what is happening in Gaza is bordering o genocide.
That’s not a salient point. You’re still operating off the myth that a genocide is killing everyone in an ethnicity. First the ICJ has confirmed that the Palestinians are a distinct group. Second you should really go look at the UN definition of genocide. Israel has been flirting with the line for decades.
I’m very familiar with the UN definition. The essential feature is demonstrating intent (dolus specialis). I agree that it is bordering on genocide but I don’t know if intent has been demonstrated. It’s frustratingly difficult, because every conflict entails civilian casualties unfortunately. The case brought forward by South Africa failed to demonstrate dolus specialis, which is required to prove intent.
Syria wiped out 100k people in the last decade alone but Lemmy is particularly focused on this one group because they woke up on Oct 7 and learned Palestine is a thing. Tbh, I’m checked out of this thread and topic at this point. Lemmy is absolutely not the place for any nuance discussion on the point so thanks for your input but I’m signing off.
Americans are focused on Israel because we’re sending weapons to the bad guys. We didn’t send weapons to Assad, and we actively fought against ISIS. Are you alleging the Kurds committed systemic war crimes?
And no intent? Fucking hell boss how much intent do you need? They’ve checked every item on the list and made public remarks about there being no innocent Palestinians. This isn’t an oopsie. They’re actively keeping civilians who would like to evacuate in the combat zone, shooting them if they try to actually leave and preventing food from getting to them.
This is wildly beyond the pale for any military operation with ethical goals. And before you go off half cocked with, “how can we know, we’re just civilians?” I’m not. I was in Iraq in 2003. I know what it’s supposed to look like. I know how you’re supposed to treat people, and I know how to conduct military operations that don’t just create more terrorists. And this ain’t it. This is just one giant war crime.
I think you missed the whole point of my position. You brought up the UN definition. If you want to go to personal anecdotes that’s also fair game but I’m not interested in this conversation any more. This place is not suited for it because we’re practically talking past each other and I can see you’re very emotionally invested. Thanks have a good day.
Lmao. Personal anecdotes. I’m not talking about my experiences. I’m talking about the objective requirements to protect civilian populations in a war. You don’t go the exact other way on every single thing unless you’re trying to kill as many civilians as you can without outright shooting every one you see.
Lmao, started in the early 2000’s?
No. This has been going on since 1948 when Israeli settlers decided to violently expel Palestinians from the land they wanted. And they haven’t stopped since.
And then there’s the issue of trying to justify a genocide by minimizing the actions being taken in Gaza and then saying the collective punishment is okay because of something Hamas did.
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Yeah … No. This all happened after Israel fought the entire Arab world as the self proclaimed champion of Judaism. It’s not surprising they wanted to leave countries that viewed them as possible foreign agents. But very few were burned out of their homes and forced to leave. The entire narrative of Jews leaving the Arab world has been politicized specifically to downplay what Israel did to the Palestinians.
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No it’s an issue when you try to create false equivalents.
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Only since 1948? The fight over Israel has been for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
No. They lived there together for thousands of years just fine.
What an ignorant take. Israel has been fought over by countless people for religious or political reasons for hundreds of years.
Oh you mean like when the Europeans came in and killed anyone in their way, including Christians?
Are you really using ancient crusades to justify a modern genocide?
The existence of war does not invalidate the coexistence of the locals. Not even the ones where the locals fought each other, because afterwards they went back to coexisting. That’s the natural state of nature, peace and coexistence. Even predators and prey drink from the same waterholes in a drought.
On another note, you should know there are 2 million Arabs living peacefully inside Israel as citizens with full rights. So it’s hard to argue for an ethnic cleansing case, even though what is happening in Gaza is bordering o genocide.
That’s not a salient point. You’re still operating off the myth that a genocide is killing everyone in an ethnicity. First the ICJ has confirmed that the Palestinians are a distinct group. Second you should really go look at the UN definition of genocide. Israel has been flirting with the line for decades.
I’m very familiar with the UN definition. The essential feature is demonstrating intent (dolus specialis). I agree that it is bordering on genocide but I don’t know if intent has been demonstrated. It’s frustratingly difficult, because every conflict entails civilian casualties unfortunately. The case brought forward by South Africa failed to demonstrate dolus specialis, which is required to prove intent.
Syria wiped out 100k people in the last decade alone but Lemmy is particularly focused on this one group because they woke up on Oct 7 and learned Palestine is a thing. Tbh, I’m checked out of this thread and topic at this point. Lemmy is absolutely not the place for any nuance discussion on the point so thanks for your input but I’m signing off.
Americans are focused on Israel because we’re sending weapons to the bad guys. We didn’t send weapons to Assad, and we actively fought against ISIS. Are you alleging the Kurds committed systemic war crimes?
And no intent? Fucking hell boss how much intent do you need? They’ve checked every item on the list and made public remarks about there being no innocent Palestinians. This isn’t an oopsie. They’re actively keeping civilians who would like to evacuate in the combat zone, shooting them if they try to actually leave and preventing food from getting to them.
This is wildly beyond the pale for any military operation with ethical goals. And before you go off half cocked with, “how can we know, we’re just civilians?” I’m not. I was in Iraq in 2003. I know what it’s supposed to look like. I know how you’re supposed to treat people, and I know how to conduct military operations that don’t just create more terrorists. And this ain’t it. This is just one giant war crime.
I think you missed the whole point of my position. You brought up the UN definition. If you want to go to personal anecdotes that’s also fair game but I’m not interested in this conversation any more. This place is not suited for it because we’re practically talking past each other and I can see you’re very emotionally invested. Thanks have a good day.
Lmao. Personal anecdotes. I’m not talking about my experiences. I’m talking about the objective requirements to protect civilian populations in a war. You don’t go the exact other way on every single thing unless you’re trying to kill as many civilians as you can without outright shooting every one you see.
Lmao indeed.