Congress has wanted nothing to do with conflicts in an official capacity for the last 50-60 years. They want sound bytes in unofficial interviews for grandstanding and to be able to blame everyone else.
This is actually a result of those decades of congress, regardless of party in control, abdicating their constitutional duty. For a recent example, check out post 9/11 and congress.
This. A thousand times this.
Both Obama and Biden have been more than willing to sign a repeal or massive overhaul of the AUMF, but both chambers of Congress and members of both parties therein are cowards who would rather cheer or criticize in front of a camera and microphone than perform their Constitutional duties of checking the power of the Commander in Chief.
Remember the Republican reaction when Obama did the same thing in Libya?
Reeeeeee! 72 hours to get our approval or we’ll impeach you! Reeeeeee! Not authorized! Not funded!
Then when our embassy there… in Benghazi… was attacked… it was years of “Reeeee! Why didn’t you DO something!!!”
The last war declared by Congress was
Korea in the early 1950sin WW2. Dark Brandon doesn’t have time for this foolishness. Yemen was warned again and again. They’ve now entered the find out stage.edit: brain worms
The last war by US Congress was declared in June 1942, against Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania. US Congress has not made a formal declaration of war since then.
Right but they pass laws granting authorization of military use of force, AUMF. That’s the Congressional authority to declare war under the War Powers Clause of the Constitution.
If you read the annotations to that clause you will see that the framers intent, traditional interpretation, and certainly modern interpretation are in agreement that the Constitution does not foreclose executive initiated use of force in what would be considered self defense, and that would certainly include the measured and limited destruction of an enemy’s ability to carry out further attacks on US interests, and would certainly cover such defensive measures when done in agreement and in concert with a broad coalition of allies.
Yes, we call those “blank checks” to the executive branch. The Germans even have a word for it. We did it with Vietnam and it did not go well. One would have thought the generation in Congress would have learned their lesson given most of them lived through that shitshow.
It goes without saying that military resources can defend themselves when fired upon, there’s plenty of precedent going back well before the formation of the US. The AUMFs were not that. They were very clearly blank checks to wage literal wars anywhere the executive desired while providing the flimsiest of evidence - and Shrub did just that. See: Iraq.
Merely an overly large check. There are limits, and we need the executive branch to be able to respond to urgent threats - the War Powers Act seems to do that.
the 1973 War Powers Resolution, which further requires that presidents not only report to Congress within 48 hours when they deploy U.S. armed forces into hostilities without congressional authorization but also end U.S. participation in those hostilities within 60 to 90 days if Congress does not authorize it after the fact.
Then people here are complaining about A U Military Force but I only see such a thing specifying Iraq. Iraq can’t be pulled into every possibility yeah, I agree Congress needs to get its shit together and constrain or repeal - the Iraq conflict that was created for is done.
Meanwhile, the response to the Houthi terrorism/piracy seems exactly what these regulations provide for
There were two AUMFs. One for “terrorism” and one for Iraq.
Go read the War Powers Act. Then tell me what decade long conflict the US has fought in without an AUMF since it was passed.
Go on.
In any event, no authorization from Congress is needed for this sort of strike, which was essentially just shooting back at someone shooting at us.
I’m not in disagreement, that also wasn’t what my initial reply was about.
Corrected. Thanks.
Ww2, Korea was never declared.
Does a formal declaration of war matter?
The Wikipedia entry for the Korean War mentions Congress allocating money for the war effort within the month after US got involved. That certainly appears to be Congressional approval.
And the US response was after a UN resolution calling for it, giving some legitimacy
Corrected. Thanks.
Yemen has been getting bombed by Saudi Arabia with the full backing of the US for almost a decade now, creating one of the worst humanitarian crises still ongoing. You’re right about the brain worms, but it’s not because you goofed up the last war declared by congress. Dumb Brandon is not cool for continuing the status quo with the military industrial complex.
Oh fuck off with this tired propaganda line. After Korea we did Vietnam as a “police action” and then Congress filled in the semantic loop hole with the War Powers Act. Which governs how we go to war now. If we need to fight an actual war then Congress has to pass an AUMF, Authorization to Use Military Force.
Every action since Vietnam has either fallen into the 60 day period presidents are allowed for emergencies or an AUMF. Congress has absolutely been exercising it’s war powers. This stupid fucking lie gets trotted out by the far left and the far right for different uses and I’m done hearing it.
Another terrorist group fucks around and finds out.
Some progressives need to put down the flowers and smoke some bad guys now and then. Conservatives need to cram their sabers up their own asses and die.
I’ll take soft progressives over the other any day of the week, but demanding Congressional approval is fucking absurd right now. It’ll take 8 months and be filled with unrelated laws, financial packages for Ohio and Texas, and pro-oil deregulation.
Not to mention, having foreseen exactly this problem previous representatives passed the War Powers Act. Biden absolutely has the authority to blow shit up. He can do it without any reason or other authority for 60 days. Then he has 30 days to remove American troops from that area. (Or return force levels to where they were)
So you want more executive power? … almost like that the president can do things without Congress?
… boom dictatorship.
There’s a line, idk what it should be but it should be.
No, but have the power to make quick action against small threats via airstrike and missile strikes shouldn’t need the end endless hem and haw from a bunch of clowns.
No one is saying let the planet go to hell
Yes, yes they are. Maybe not you, but there are billionaires saying exactly that.
They might have a stronger case if they haven’t proven to be a ‘do nothing’ Congress. They can’t even put together a budget.
Congress signed over the rights to just do war crimes whenever you feel like it back under Reagan.
Now the President can do the thing, Congress can call a hearing to complain about it, elections happen, power changes hands, and the only people who suffer are the ones getting bombed.
It’s not a war crime to return fire if fired upon.
“He bombed me back first”
Targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure, mass arrests and forced removal of native populations, and indiscriminate use of chemical weapons are all war crimes. Hell, use of cluster bombs and mines have been recognized as war crimes since the mid-90s, and yet the US is the world’s largest manufacturer and distributor of both.
So, nobody should be held accountable for firing on a US Navy ship sailing in international waters?
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So, nobody should be held accountable for the US eagerly aiding Israel in its quest of genocide? Also, the US has been helping Saudi Arabia bomb the Houthis for almost a decade now and have created a humanitarian crisis in Yemen.
Shooting at international shipping isn’t holding anyone accountable unless you hate shipping corporations. And yeah if you shoot at the military (any military) don’t be surprised when they shoot back.
It’s clearly made the US take notice (since they care more about trade than people’s lives), so mission accomplished. How else do you propose they do it, given the limited resources they have? Take it up with the UN, where the US vetoes any resolution against israel?
Of course someone should be held responsible. So fling a few bombs up in the air and declare anyone they land on “enemy combatants” and then we can say justice was served.
The US no longer makes leave in place mines. They are all command detonated. That was a Clinton thing. The cluster bombs… We’re actually phasing them out of our arsenal. However the US maintains they’re legal as long as they’re not used in urban areas. Largely because Russia and China still use them and they’re very effective. We’d need to get them seriously on board to actually stop making cluster munitions.
The US no longer makes leave in place mines. They are all command detonated.
We continue to use them on the Korean divide, probably the most heavily mined place on earth. And while we’ve definitely updated our arsenal, I would not bet my life on the reliability of these ostensibly more advanced systems.
The cluster bombs… We’re actually phasing them out of our arsenal.
Sure. By selling them to our allies.
Largely because Russia and China still use them and they’re very effective.
Well, they’re cheap by tonnage, which is why the Russians love them. But they’re also unreliable, which is what makes them so dangerous. They don’t always detonate where they land, and that makes them function as land mines after the fact. They are only “effective” in the sense that they’re explosive devices that litter a large area.
As to China, when was the last time they bombed anyone? Like, at all? To my knowledge, the Chinese haven’t been involved in a war since they signed a peace deal with Vietnam in the 70s. The closest we’ve seen has been police actions along border territories (Xinjiang getting a bunch of jihadist spillover from Afghanistan, slap fights with Indian border guard counterparts, etc). Who have they been dropping cluster bombs on, in living memory even?
The DMZ landmines have been there for 70 years and de-mining that would come with serious risks of sniper attacks, ambushes, and nuclear war. Yeah it really ramps up that quick over there. All we need is for the Hermit King to think we’re clearing breach routes and Seoul goes up. So yeah we’re not removing those.
Even under the Trump administration we’re sticking to “non-permanent” landmines. The most prominent and widespread of which is the command activated claymore.
Most of our allies are also getting rid of cluster bombs. And when Ukraine specifically asked for them we hesitated to sell them. The reason we did so is because of parity in that war. And while they aren’t reliable enough to leave the area safe of UXO, they are extremely reliable at destroying military equipment.
China matters because they’re constantly threatening military action.
So are they going to repeal the War Powers Act? Are we going back to needing a Declaration of War to deal with every pissant pirate?
Not the pirates of pissants? Have they try singing to distract them?
Houthi and the Blowfish
It would be a good start, yes.
No, it wouldn’t. A straight repeal of the War Powers Act also opens us up to another Vietnam. And amending it such that any use of force requires congressional approval would put us in an international straight jacket. From defending our shipping interests to protecting allies. In the event of China deciding it would rather just take existing islands to make it’s “nine dashed line” a reality, we’d be arguing about immigration instead of deploying the Navy. And we would instantly lose the trade access we have to the entirety of the SEA region.
We tried isolationism. It didn’t work.
Asking Congress is a surefire way to get nothing done.
Isn’t fighting piracy like legal for everyone? Like a private citizen or any country’s military could go out there and hunt pirates. I remember that from when the somali pirates got yeeted.
The AUMF probably also actually has given him the right to do this.
No AUMF required to bonk pirates. It’s the national version of self defense.
There are no laws in international waters.
You underestimate the reach of US law. Also, the “Law of the Sea” clearly applies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
There are laws that govern Antarctica, Outer Space, the Moon, etc. International waters are just less regulated, but there are definitely laws.
The legislative branch has been busted for so long that they literally ceded power to go to war to the executive for the good of the nation. Y’all can feel free to undo that at any time once you’re not completely broken.
Last I heard, the AUMFs were still active. Assuming that was used to justify this legally.
No need. The War Powers Act 30 Day emergency powers clearly apply.
Are they suggesting to allow US Navy ships to be attacked without retaliation? It’s been going on for like 2 months now. Are they willing to have that on their voting record?
Did they send a strongly worded letter, that they later retracted, again…?
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