Hmm, I seem to recall US Intelligence swearing that Saddam Hussein definitely had WMDs and was definitely about to use them on his own people and we definitely needed to invade Iraq to stop him. US Intelligence is not a fact or truth seeking operation; its purpose is to further American imperial interests all else be damned.
That’s not quite on point. The IC wants the facts. What the political leadership do with those facts is a whole different thing.
Even if it did, and I wouldn’t take Israels best ally as complitelly objective fact, you don’t just bomb a whole hospital full of civilians
Yup. I think there’s a difference between the factual claim of whether Hamas has operations on the hospital grounds vs the justification for the type of military action taken against the hospital. I think it is possible to accept there is truth to the Hamas operations center being located there and still condemn the military tactics used against the hospital due to civilian casualties and harm it caused. Unfortunately those 2 things seem to be conflates that acknowledgement of Hamas being there is implicitly condoning Israel’s actions.
AP have the most comprehensive coverage of the document, which is not publicly available. Two sections in jump out to me:
“The U.S. Intelligence Community is confident in its judgment on this topic and has independently corroborated information on HAMAS and PIJ’s use of the hospital complex for a variety of purposes related to its campaign against Israel,” the assessment states. It continues that it believes the groups “used the al-Shifa hospital complex and sites beneath it to house command infrastructure, exercise certain command and control activities, store some weapons, and hold at least a few hostages.”
And
The U.S. believes that Hamas members evacuated days before Israel raided the complex on Nov. 15 and that they destroyed sensitive documents and electronics before Israeli troops entered the facility.
Lol, it’s declassified, but not public. Do words mean nothing anymore?
U.S. Intelligence Says
The actual news here is the declassified document. Which according to the article is just a note saying we believe the IDF.
Yup totally confidence inspiring.
While the spy agencies provided no visual evidence, a U.S. official said they were confident in their assessment because it was based on information collected by Israel and America’s own intelligence, gathered independently.
Anybody find those WMDs yet?
I have nothing but respect for the analysts in the intelligence community. But I’ve seen what leadership does with their reports.
Bombed UN facilities in Gaza was used by Hamas as counterfeit olive oil factories, U.S. Intelligence Says
Did they use the part of the hospital Israel built to be a bunker as their command center?
Are we considering armed guards at hospitals to be war crimes now, because Israel built that bunker and definitely stations armed guards at all of its hospitals.
But Hamas… exists.
That’s good enough to genocide Palestine, right guys?
This “news” only really serves as justification for the blowing up of hospitals and civilians
It’s sad the New York Times has fully turned into a Zionist propaganda outlet the last few days.
Well they go back and forth. They have demanded better evidence before and here they do point out that this isn’t that evidence. It’s just a declassified document saying we officially believe the IDF. Which isn’t really new.
Please, they’ve been parrotting Israeli propaganda since day one. Their words mean nothing.
US
IntelligencePropagandistsSo funny seeing people here react to any news regarding Israel and Gaza. Bomb falls in parking lot of a hospital, Hamas says 20 minutes later 500 dead, everyone believes the and it takes weeks to disprove their claim and bunch of sources to analyze and report on their findings. Any non-Hamas source says terrorists are using terrorist tactics… entire lemmy goes: fake, discredited, Israel ally is lying for them, etc.
And down-votes that are coming on this comment just go to prove how big of a supported to terrorism people here are.
“Terrorists” is the 21st century equivalent to “savages” to justify imperialism and genocide. US propagandists can stfu.
Call it what you like. The fact is they hid behind civilians, kidnapped other civilians and tortured them. Or is cutting off womb of a pregnant woman with baby still moving in her now not savage because we don’t want to identify with US?
Got other made up stories? Time and time again has shown that every single thing that comes out of the mouths of US and Israeli politicians is a lie unless proven otherwise.
Removed by mod
Even Colin Powell at the UN speaking about Iraq’s WMDs was more convincing. Yawn.
You have one downvote. From me. And yeah if you’re going to bomb a protected target we’re going to want to see the evidence. You don’t just get to shrug and mumble something about terrorists.
Protected by whom? International rules of war which were never respected in the first place?
So far, you’ve characterised support for a group that’s being genocided as supporting terrorists, and made it clear you don’t care about warcrimes. You’ve implied you care about hospitals being bombed, but that doesn’t seem to apply when the bombing is done by the group bombing the majority of the hospitals.
You need to stop and ask yourself if you’re backing the bad guys, my guy.
You are conflicting yourself in the first place. You claim protected target is being bombed, but it’s protected by the same rules which state taking shelter in hospitals and taking hostages is a crime. You either condemn all who break the rule or none at all, but not selectively.
I do condemn those things, but keep in mind that they were funded by Israel, who are also committing more warcrimes and killing more civilians.
Why do you work so hard to gloss over Israel’s objectively far worse actions to whine about Hamas?
entire lemmy
Different people are saying different things. Stop clumping everyone together. Lemmy isn’t a monolith.
My issue is more with people supporting a genocide because Hamas exists.
Few people have a problem condemning Hamas, but when Israel is clearly killing far more civilians and bombing more hospitals than Israel, obsessing about the lesser problem (who were Israel-funded in any case) is deeply suspicious.
On no account should any genocide be tolerated or supported. Am merely pointing out how differently people react on different kind of news. Not to mention how frequently people confuse Palestinian cause with Hamas cause.
Then why do you need to construct strawmen?
Why they need to justify something we all know is a lie?
Lol what does this matter?
Israel committed so much more heinous atrocities I honestly give no fuck that an oppressed people have a terrorist group lashing out using a hospital as a base.
Israel lied about the sexual assault and baby mutilations, they are ar performing genocide and they’ve oppressed these people for generations.
Fuck Israel
It matters because one of the charges leveled against Israel is that they bombed a hospital just to genocide Palestinian babies. Clearly, Hamas was using said babies as human shields, which is a war crime. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Hamas apologists don’t like it, so now you just say it doesn’t matter, lol.
Nope the shoe literally cannot be on the other foot.
Israel funded Hamas.
Israel has developed this culture in Gaza because of the treatment of Palestinians.
Israel has far more money and resources.
So the instigator with more money/power in the situation causing a genocide after decades of racial abuse gets no pass that shoe cannot go anywhere else
All of Hamas’ actions are only happening because of Israel. Sorry
It’s probably true that Netanyahu funded Hamas for cynical reasons. The Israeli right-wing coalition definitely needs to go. But you can’t justify Hamas terrorism againsr civilians because the Palestinian people are angry and oppressed. Hamas has agency. They aren’t some inexorable force of history. They choose to be terrorists. Hamas was already a radical terrorist organization in its own right, and was duly elected by the people of Gaza as such. Fuck those raping terrorists.
All this back-and-forth revenge is, of course, just a vicious cycle and shouldn’t continue. But I am a little tired of this faulty reasoning that Israel is the bad guy just because they are more powerful. Palestinians and Israelis have both done things to provoke violence and both sides have, at various times, rejected peace and compromise. But Hamas is unambiguously a terrorist group that stokes division and whose sole purpose is to eliminate Israel. Hamas is a barrier to peace and will get no sympathy from me.
Israel is the bad guy because they are more powerful.
You refer to Hamas as rapists but not the IDF? You don’t mention the bold land grabs and settling of Palestinian land.
Israel is a terrorist group. They aren’t treated as such because they are a Nation, they’re only a nation because that isn’t their land other people lived there first.
You literally touch on every reason why Israel is the first to blame yet refuse to commit to blaming them. When Israel faces consequences then we can talk about Hamas until then it is their fault.
This is not a zero tolerance bullshit school fight. Israel punched first and second and third and forth while having more money and resources and legal power over Palestinians. Hamas wouldn’t exist in this way without Israel.
No. Absolutely no to everything you said. When Bibi swings from the gallows we can tear apart Hamas all we want. Until then you play into the bully’s hand.
they’re only a nation because that isn’t their land other people lived there first.
That is true of every nation. Literally everyone lives on land that was occupied by some other tribe in the past. The really ironic thing about saying that the Palestinians were there “first” is that the UN used precisely that originalist doctrine to justify creating Israel for the Jews in the first place!
So you understand then why Israel is fully to blame?
Everyone does live on some other tribes land. But Israel, America, Canada are different than British and Chinese history in that way.
This is modern day. Those things are still felt. Hell the Irish still feel how the British treated them.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you are trying to say. How are Israel, Canada and America different from Britain and China? And how do the Irish fit into it?
Nice ignoring of the point that the Jewish were there first being the rational for creating Jewish settlements there to begin with.
For the inevitable downvoters, regardless of who is to blame it’s important that those of us discussing this attempt to understand the point the other is making even if we disagree with it.
From what I see in this conversation there’s one person putting their points across reasonably and there’s another throwing whatever cards they have randomly at the board.
